Do the LDS believe we are accountable for the original sin?

[MormonFriend]

I saw what you said: "Without Christ and his grace, there would be no hope for salvation because no man can follow the commandments perfectly."

Does God command you to do what you can't do?

Do you believe that Doctrine and Covenants 25:15 is true?

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

Do you believe that 1 Nephi 3:7 is true?

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.



Christ fills the rest?

When we understand the enabling power of the Atonement, we will be changed; we will have access to strength beyond our natural abilities, our weakness can be turned to strength, and we can know that “in the strength of the Lord” we can “do all things” (Alma 20:4).
The Enabling Power of the Atonement - Ensign Mar. 2013 - ensign

PA, what is a yoke?

28 ¶Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. ( Matthew 11)

 

[Sophrosyne]

Who said WE aren't responsible for our sins?

To equate God wanted Adam to sin so he could save him does. When God wants something typically it can interfere with the free will of others and in order for God to save mankind had to make sure Adam sinned such that Adam was set up to be unable to resist it. If Adam and Eve had not sinned then God's plan for Salvation would have been foiled thus we could concede that God had to make sure sin happened and in making sure sin happens God would be the author of sin and responsible.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Without the Fall of Adam we would never be able to have mortal bodies because procreation happened after the Fall. We would never be able to die and live with God again and gain a fullness of joy. Death is a part of the Plan of Salvation also. "Their [Adam and Eve] part in our Father's plan was to bring mortality into the world." Doctrine Principles. It goes on to say that their transgression was actually a great blessing to all. This is because of it we have physical bodies, agency, and the opportunity to gain eternal life. This wouldn't have happened without the Fall (paraphrased from the book Gospel Principles).

I'm sorry but that is not biblical. There is no proof that Adam and Eve were sterile and unable to procreate in the Garden just because it didn't happen till after the fall could easily mean God knew that sin was coming and decided to delay them conceiving such as to not have Eve pregnant and tossing her out of the Garden to fend for herself while giving birth to a child. I don't see any proof of God recreating Adam and Eve after the fall so they could conceive.

 

[MormonFriend]

I'm sorry but that is not biblical. There is no proof that Adam and Eve were sterile and unable to procreate in the Garden just because it didn't happen till after the fall could easily mean God knew that sin was coming and decided to delay them conceiving such as to not have Eve pregnant and tossing her out of the Garden to fend for herself while giving birth to a child. I don't see any proof of God recreating Adam and Eve after the fall so they could conceive.

Do you demand "proof" before you can believe anything that pertains to the things of God? If so, you short change yourself of the very key that unlocks all understanding.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Do you demand "proof" before you can believe anything that pertains to the things of God? If so, you short change yourself of the very key that unlocks all understanding.

I rather think that without proof at some level one will never gain understanding. If there is no proof will I be able to understand why I can't levitate?

 

[ImLDS]

I saw what you said: "Without Christ and his grace, there would be no hope for salvation because no man can follow the commandments perfectly."

Does God command you to do what you can't do?

Do you believe that Doctrine and Covenants 25:15 is true?

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

Do you believe that 1 Nephi 3:7 is true?

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.



Christ fills the rest?

When we understand the enabling power of the Atonement, we will be changed; we will have access to strength beyond our natural abilities, our weakness can be turned to strength, and we can know that “in the strength of the Lord” we can “do all things” (Alma 20:4).





Born in the Covenant.

"Grace" in the Bible Dictionary "
It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, made possible by His atoning sacrifice, that mankind will be raised in immortality, every person receiving his body from the grave in a condition of everlasting life. It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.
Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the Fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Ne 25:23). It is truly the grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible. This principle is expressed in Jesus’ parable of the vine and the branches"

 

[fatboys]

I'm sorry but that is not biblical. There is no proof that Adam and Eve were sterile and unable to procreate in the Garden just because it didn't happen till after the fall could easily mean God knew that sin was coming and decided to delay them conceiving such as to not have Eve pregnant and tossing her out of the Garden to fend for herself while giving birth to a child. I don't see any proof of God recreating Adam and Eve after the fall so they could conceive.

They did not have knowledge of Good and evil. If they did not know how to procreate then how were they suppose to have children? Adam and Eve could have had kids, they just would not have had kids.

 

[MormonFriend]

Originally Posted by MormonFriend

Do you demand "proof" before you can believe anything that pertains to the things of God? If so, you short change yourself of the very key that unlocks all understanding.
​

I rather think that without proof at some level one will never gain understanding. ...

I rather think that God is training us, if we give our all in obedience to His gospel, to gain understanding through His Spirit. When your heart tells you things that your mind alone cannot comprehend, that is the Spirit at work within you. That would be called faith. There are many levels of faith from minimum to a saving faith. Developing faith to understand brings us to a higher faith.

If there is no proof will I be able to understand why I can't levitate?

How does that pertain to the things of God?

 

[joneysd]

I rather think that God is training us, if we give our all in obedience to His gospel, to gain understanding through His Spirit. When your heart tells you things that your mind alone cannot comprehend, that is the Spirit at work within you. That would be called faith. There are many levels of faith from minimum to a saving faith. Developing faith to understand brings us to a higher faith.



How does that pertain to the things of God?

If you accept everything that is said to you came directly from God you would be very mixed up as depending who said it yu would be swinging back and forth in the winds of doctrine just as the bible says.

the bible says test my word, we have the bible to measure the truth against.

Paul says "for I am convinced", that to me talks of proof, evidence that has shown Paul, beyond faith, That God is true and his word is true.

 

[Rescued One]

PA, what is a yoke?

28 ¶Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. ( Matthew 11)

Like I said, Mormons can be perfect.

 

[Rescued One]

ImLDS, now you can answer my questions:

"So without any guilt on our part, all are punished with a fallen nature? LDS have to watch their children die of cancer even if they are BIC LDS?"

 

[bbbbbbb]

I rather think that God is training us, if we give our all in obedience to His gospel, to gain understanding through His Spirit. When your heart tells you things that your mind alone cannot comprehend, that is the Spirit at work within you. That would be called faith. There are many levels of faith from minimum to a saving faith. Developing faith to understand brings us to a higher faith.

It requires an enormous amount of faith on my part to believe that I am Napoleon Bonaparte rather than who I was born as. In my heart I would very much like to believe that I am really not just some ordinary chap, but that I am someone really special and famous. My mind, however, keeps getting in the way. I will try harder to suspend my mind and develop my higher faith. I am not sure you would call that saving faith, but it is definitely a higher faith.

How does that pertain to the things of God?

Very simply. Believing that I can personally levitate requires extreme faith. By your own definition that is a higher faith than simply believing that I am unable to levitate. This higher faith requires the suspension of one's mental abilities, which is exactly what you asked us to do and which you assert will guide us to saving faith.

 

[ImLDS]

ImLDS, now you can answer my questions:

"So without any guilt on our part, all are punished with a fallen nature? LDS have to watch their children die of cancer even if they are BIC LDS?"

I seriously don't understand what you are saying. We have a fallen nature but aren't accountable for anyone's sin except for our own. Accountability is at the age of 8 so they haven't committed sin. Just being "born in the covenant" does not mean they can't get cancer. God takes the little children home if they die. Other than that, I don't get what you are asking.

 

[MormonFriend]

Like I said, Mormons can be perfect.

Everyone can be perfect. The problem lies with if we will be perfect, and that is where we fall short.

Now, what is a yoke?

 

[MormonFriend]

ImLDS, now you can answer my questions:

"So without any guilt on our part, all are punished with a fallen nature? LDS have to watch their children die of cancer even if they are BIC LDS?"

For being a former LDS, your understanding of our beliefs is pathetic! We are grateful for the opportunity this fallen nature gives us to grow, for we could not develop our potential without opposition. Suffering is part of the jigsaw puzzle for any religious belief, whether it be our children dying of cancer, or my grandmother's daughter (my aunt) at 16, being murdered by a boyfriend. There is no tragedy in life except for denying the voice of the Holy Ghost.

The things we suffer brings us closer to God if we head that voice, and many of us need to be humbled by suffering. Even Jesus learned obedience (without faltering) by the things He suffered. Many, who are already humble, are the recipients of suffering due to selfish choices of evil persons. The innocent sufferers are perfected in exercising Christlike character to forgive, while the evil now have evidence against them that will condemn them at the judgement. I find God's plan efficiently perfect, even by the things that I suffer.

 

[Raimi Stranger]

sin that started with adam.

there is no evidence that Adam sinned at all, as Paul points out , he was innocent until after eating the fruit for he knew not good from evil until the fruit gave him that knowledge... he was outside the law until he had eaten the fruit to know the law

the doctrine of 'original sin' is thus nonsense and in fact the bible states that it is false:-

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

we are NOT responsible for the sins of our predecessors, so cannot possibly be responsible for any sins Adam may have done

it is obvious really that one can only be held accountable for sins oneself commits...

 

[bbbbbbb]

there is no evidence that Adam sinned at all, as Paul points out , he was innocent until after eating the fruit for he knew not good from evil until the fruit gave him that knowledge... he was outside the law until he had eaten the fruit to know the law

the doctrine of 'original sin' is thus nonsense and in fact the bible states that it is false:-

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

we are NOT responsible for the sins of our predecessors, so cannot possibly be responsible for any sins Adam may have done

it is obvious really that one can only be held accountable for sins oneself commits...

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

I suggest you read this quote from Paul and tell me that sin did not enter the world through Adam.

 

[Rescued One]

For being a former LDS, your understanding of our beliefs is pathetic!

That statement is rude. I know the LDS teachings and I strongly disagree with many of them. That is why I'm not LDS.

We are grateful for the opportunity this fallen nature gives us to grow, for we could not develop our potential without opposition. Suffering is part of the jigsaw puzzle for any religious belief, whether it be our children dying of cancer, or my grandmother's daughter (my aunt) at 16, being murdered by a boyfriend.

So that's what makes you grateful for the Fall?

There is no tragedy in life except for denying the voice of the Holy Ghost.

That is the greatest tragedy. I would say that suffering would not be needed if Adam hadn't brought it upon us.

The things we suffer brings us closer to God if we head that voice, and many of us need to be humbled by suffering. Even Jesus learned obedience (without faltering) by the things He suffered. Many, who are already humble, are the recipients of suffering due to selfish choices of evil persons. The innocent sufferers are perfected in exercising Christlike character to forgive, while the evil now have evidence against them that will condemn them at the judgement. I find God's plan efficiently perfect, even by the things that I suffer.

I don't agree that God desired for Adam to be disobedient.

 

[MormonFriend]

Originally Posted by MormonFriend
For being a former LDS, your understanding of our beliefs is pathetic!

That statement is rude. I know the LDS teachings and I strongly disagree with many of them. That is why I'm not LDS.

It is not rude, it is honest and factual. It means your understanding is grossly erroneous, that equates to pathetic in my mind. If my definition is wrong, I will gladly accept correction. I did not call you pathetic, nor would I. But your understanding of what we believe is. You cannot truthfully disagree with what you do not understand.

 

[drstevej]

It means your understanding is grossly erroneous, that equates to pathetic in my mind.

or this definition: Arousing pity, esp. through vulnerability or sadness


The "in my mind" part shows this is opinion. And you are not neutral on this issue. So, I'll take your opinion as such.