Is masturbation a sin?

[GutenbergPrintPress1454]

Sexual thoughts and desires are from the evil nature and are rooted in selfishness, idolatry etc - if it's outside marriage / towards other people (if inside marriage).

Jesus and the NT clearly condemns Lust and sexual thoughts.

I agree with you.

But if the impure thoughts come to your mind automatically, that's not a sin unless the person consent to it.

When we avoid sexual sins, we become free and joyful. Everybody can conquer sexual sins by praying and putting good thoughts into your mind.

 

[genetheking]

I agree with you.

When we avoid sexual sins, we become free and joyful. Everybody can conquer sexual sins by praying and putting good thoughts into your mind.

Amen Brother finally someone who shares my views about masturbation.

 

[Orange Kitten Bob]

Since the New Testament does not forbid masturbation, it is only wrong if done publicly. I have heard cases of brutally strict parents on this issue with their kids and then the same are shocked when their kid is a rapist or a pedophile or mutilates themselves or commits suicide. Better they relieve themselves in private than hurt another person or animal or even themselves.

I see prohibiting masturbation as in direct violation of Revelations 22: 18&19(KJV, NIV, GLW).

 

[dayhiker]

Ya, I know a boy who cut off his penis because of the church teaching about masturbation and sexual thoughts being a sin. yet God created puberty and the sexual thoughts that goes with it as best as I can tell.

I also agree with you Orange on Rev.22.

 

[genetheking]

Genesis 38:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.
Any thoughts?

 

[Johnnz]

Nothing to dowith masturbation. Just refusing to fulfill his obligation to produce a child.

John
NZ

 

[tobethebest]

It's just a simple act which is part of life that is acceptable by urologists everywhere. When and where and with whom (God forbid) it is performed is what makes the difference between successfully getting away with it, or being thrown out of someone else's home, who unfortunately for you, caught you in the act inside his home, which could cause you to get your butt whipped. Should something like that happen to someone, my money's on the owner. I wouldn't tolerate it.

 

[standingtall]

When the most popular thread in a forum is about masturbation, it's time to take a step back and look at the message you are sending the the internet world.

 

[delaola]

I see prohibiting masturbation as in direct violation of Revelations 22: 18&19(KJV, NIV, GLW).

I just looked at Rev. 22 and nowhere in there did it say anything about that. If you're referring to verses 18 and 19, it clearly states that adding to that scroll or that prophecy is a violation. Don't know where your idea came from but that's not biblical.

God created puberty and the sexual thoughts that goes with it as best as I can tell.

Did he really? Because I read all over the bible about Paul denying his carnal thoughts. God created puberty, and lust, but Satan deceived us to twist these perfect creations to glorify ourselves instead of the Creator. Masturbation is self-love which is a direct subordination to God. How can we love God if we are too busy loving ourselves?

 

[Johnnz]

Because I read all over the bible about Paul denying his carnal thoughts. God created puberty, and lust, but Satan deceived us to twist these perfect creations to glorify ourselves instead of the Creator. Masturbation is self-love which is a direct subordination to God. How can we love God if we are too busy loving ourselves?

Carnal thoughts= flesh, old nature, old man in the NT. It never refers to natural human drives or desires as such. It's their misuse that consitutes sinful behaviour.

God did create puberty and for that to result in sexually mature adults. That is not 'lust' any more than tiredness or hunger. In fact, God made us to be highly sensual, emotionally rich beings who can love and feel and and create and rise up against injustice with geat passion.

Masturbation is not self love. It is a physical act in essence, although as for our sexuality in general, it can become distorted. Some maried sex is little more than mutual masturbation, with real intimacy and other awreness completely lacking.

John
NZ

 

[delaola]

h

 

[delaola]

Masturbation is not self love. It is a physical act in essence, although as for our sexuality in general, it can become distorted. Some maried sex is little more than mutual masturbation, with real intimacy and other awreness completely lacking.

John
NZ

We are all prone to selfishness by nature and masturbation seems to fan that flame. It also tends to isolate us. We withdraw and focus on ourselves. “What would be good for me? What really excites me?” All of this thinking breeds an attitude that is contrary to biblical love. Biblical love involves giving for the needs of another expecting nothing in return. Love is giving not getting.

The activity of autoeroticism by nature is a ‘getting’ activity rather than a giving activity. We begin to think we don’t need another human relationship in that area. Yet this gift was intended to be some of the ‘glue’ that would knit us to another person rather than ourselves. Masturbation runs counter to that and feeds selfish isolationism. We read in 1 Corinthians13:5, “Love does not seek its own.” Masturbation seeks it’s own. Romans 15:2-3 says, “Each of us should please his neighbor [your spouse is your closest neighbor] for his good, to build him up. For even Christ did not please Himself.”

Philippians 2:3-4 drives this home. “Let nothing be done from selfish ambition… let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.”


http://biblicalcounselingcoalition.org/blogs/2011/05/25/so-what-about-masturbation

 

[Simon_Templar]

Yes masturbation is a sin. It is by definition an act of lust.

Sex was created by God as part of the husband wife relationship, and together with the husband wife relationship it is part of the image of God in humanity. Genesis tells us that God made man in his own image and likeness, male and female. This doesn't just mean that God has both the traits of masculinity and femininity, rather the point is that God is a family, a love relationship and thus a family, love relationship is necessary to truly image God.

Sex was created as the expression of self giving love within that husband and wife relationship. The husband and wife become one, as God is one, through love. Further that union of love begets life. In the Trinity, the love of the Father begets the Son and the Spirit. In the human image of the family, the love of the parents in self giving unity, begets the life that becomes their children.

The essence of lust is when we divorce sex from that self giving inter personal love and use it as a tool for pleasure. In doing this we use another person, or your own self, as an object to serve our own desires, rather than giving yourself to them as a gift of love.

This is, I think, also why Paul said that other sins are committed outside of the body, but sexual sin is a sin against your own body. In sexual sin, including masturbation you are objectifying your own body, rather than seeing it and treating it as the sacred temple that it is. You may be objectifying someone else, but in sexual sin you are always objectifying your own body.

This is a difficult sin to overcome and I know that most men struggle with this one, maybe many women too, I don't know about that.
The first principle in trying to overcome sins like this is that when you give in, it feeds the desire to sin. The more you sin, the more you will want to sin.
The reverse of that is when we pursue grace through fellowship with God, in prayer, worship, etc, it weakens the hold that sin has on us and ultimately makes it easier for us to resist temptation.

This is not a matter of doing it in your own power. Apart from God it is impossible to overcome sin. Ask God to help you and be willing to resist.

 

[Johnnz]

I don't disagree with much of what you have written Simon. But some of your conclusions don't necessarily follow.

An unmarried person can experience physical release without that subsequently detracting from a later marriage. The full expression of genital sex is to occur within marriage as a vital component of a couples intimacy and shared lives. But our human sexuality is wider than intercourse. Our gender, our body in it's entirety, one's attractiveness and clothing styles are all expressions of our sexuality, all of which can contribute to one's marriage relationship in varying degrees. Some form of sexual release prior to marriage need not be implicitly wrong.

John
NZ

 

[Yahu]

I don't disagree with much of what you have written Simon. But some of your conclusions don't necessarily follow.

An unmarried person can experience physical release without that subsequently detracting from a later marriage. The full expression of genital sex is to occur within marriage as a vital component of a couples intimacy and shared lives. But our human sexuality is wider than intercourse. Our gender, our body in it's entirety, one's attractiveness and clothing styles are all expressions of our sexuality, all of which can contribute to one's marriage relationship in varying degrees. Some form of sexual release prior to marriage need not be implicitly wrong.

John
NZ

I agree and pretty much disagree with Simon. IMO he doesn't understand the difference between God given desire and lust. He is confusing desire for lust.

I used to do marital and sexual counseling. When I explained male masturbation to women it shocked them. They had so little understanding. I compared forcing a man to remain celibate without managing his hormone levels was like men forcing women to take hormones to keep them in a constant state of PMS and telling them they are in sin if they are not always nice and sweet to everyone.

Now when I explained this to a group of young women, two of them had fiances that didn't behave like those that have high levels of hormones in the system. They found out both those fiances masturbated regularly to keep their hormones under control within their pre-marital relationship.

Forced celibacy is straight out of the ancient paganism. The enemy uses the extremes to force celibacy or greatly encourage unlimited sexual activity. To force men to always deal with high levels of hormone levels is what leads to things like date rape and buggered alter boys.

My counsel is and always has been for young men to manage their sex drive with masturbation. Those that teach against it generally don't understand biblical sexual law. All sexual law was about being responsible with your sex drive, not declaring all desire as evil if your not married. Even under OT law a man could take on a concubine which was a non-virgin sexual partner that was not a wife. Our society tends to look at scripture through our puritanical lenses. If you actually read the OT in the original Hebrew there are all kinds of sexual references that are generally hidden by our standard english translations.

For example, Naomi specifically tells Ruth to wait for Boaz to sleep after feasting and drinking then have intercourse with him. This specific passage was covered in my Hebrew course at bible college. Of course with our Puritanical lenses our translations tend to hide that fact. But what most of us don't understand is Ruth had a right by the law to a child by a close relative of her dead husband. These were called the Levirate Rights. Its purpose was to provide an heir from within her former husband's family that had the legal right to inherit the tribal land due that former husband. That child could then maintain his mother for the rest of her life with the income from that land. In that case, marriage was NOT required for sexual intercourse, only a child was required. Boaz went the 'extra-mile', married her and restored that family land immediately instead of waiting until the next Jubilee Year when it returned to the rightful heirs. He also took on Ruth as a full wife. Their 1st son could inherit Ruth's former husbands land but the 2nd son could inherit Boaz's property. The 1st son wasn't considered Boaz's child but he raised up an heir for her former husband. This is what Onan refused to do for Tamar. He had the sex with his former sister-in-law but failed to complete the act to give her a child. He was greedy and wanted the double portion of Judah's wealth for himself instead of providing an heir for his dead brother.

Biblical fornication is generally linked directly with the ancient pagan practices. Most don't understand what was involved in that paganism but there was a lot of sexual worship and ritual prostitution. The pagan temples and the groves were the equivalent of a night club, restaurant, strip club and harlot house where public sex acts were conducted in dedication to the pagan gods/goddesses of fertility and sexuality. That is the activity that was condemned by the prophets and Paul in his NT writings. It was all about casual sex just for the sake of satisfying lust.

Biblical sexual law is so misunderstood because we interpret it through the lenses of our modern society instead of the context within it was given.

 

[Yahu]

Genesis 38:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.
Any thoughts?

Yes, Onan was killed because of his GREED.

You have to understand Hebrew inheritance law and marriage contracts. The eldest son got a double portion to maintain his parents in old age. The eldest son was dead without an heir. A wife never inherited. But Tamar married a wealthy man that had not received his inheritance.

Only a son that was descent from Judah could gain that dead husband's inheritance. Tamar was to be given a son that would gain the double portions of her former husband to maintain her the rest of her life according to the marriage contract under Hebrew law.

With 3 sons of Judah, Onan would get 25% of Judah's wealth while 50% went to the eldest. With the eldest dead and only 2 remaining sons, Onan would get 66% and the youngest 33%. If Onan gave Tamar a child by raising up seed to his brother he went back to only getting 25% of Judah's wealth.

Hmm 66% verses 25%. All Onan had to do was prevent Tamar from having a child to inherit. He used her for sex but pulled out and spilled his seed out of his greed for the greater inheritance.

This passage has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with masturbation. Full sexual intercourse was involved but the act wasn't completed to produce the required child. It was forbidden by law for a man to have sexual contact with his brother's wife EXCEPT in this case to provide a child under the Levirate Right laws.

Onan used his sister-in-law as a harlot and literally tried to screw her out of her marriage contract and steal the greater inheritance for himself.

His act was truely evil and he deserved to die. Gaining her rights by the marriage contract could be the difference between Tamar's security or starving to death.

To use this story as pertaining to masturbation is ridiculous and just demonstrates ignorance. Onan didn't touch. He pulled out at the last moment to spill his seed. It wasn't the act of spilling his seed but the motive behind his actions that were evil. Yah was judging his heart and his heart was evil.

 

[Yahu]

Since the New Testament does not forbid masturbation, it is only wrong if done publicly. I have heard cases of brutally strict parents on this issue with their kids and then the same are shocked when their kid is a rapist or a pedophile or mutilates themselves or commits suicide. Better they relieve themselves in private than hurt another person or animal or even themselves.

I see prohibiting masturbation as in direct violation of Revelations 22: 18&19(KJV, NIV, GLW).

While I agree with your position I disagree that you can apply Rev 22 to this concept.

The passage in Rev 22 pertained to the 'book of Revelation' NOT the entire canon. The Canon is a library of selected books all bound together. To pertain to the entire Canon is taking the passage totally out of context and that is how false doctrine get propagated.

Now to expand upon the written law by the traditions of man was the error of the Pharisees. They added the oral law which was a collection of additions to the actual law that made a fence around forbidden acts to prevent the possibility of sin. For example the commandment not to say the name of Yahweh in vain became don't say the name at all because you may say it in vain. They wouldn't even read the name when it was in scripture but replaced it with Adonia meaning 'my lord'. That same tradition was even carried over into most translations that use LORD instead of the actual name.

This additions to the law by men was one of the things the Pharisees attacked Yeshua over. He disregarded the traditions of man but followed the actual law. They attacked him for not following those requirements of the oral law, the traditions of man claiming He was in sin.

To condemn masturbation as sin is falling into the same error of the Pharisees and we know what Yeshua called the Pharisees, a nest of vipers and children of their father the devil because of their attacks on others for not bowing to the traditions of man.

That same Phariseeism if rampant within this thread and will be judged before the Judgement seat of Christ. Those that add to the law, teach false doctrines and attack those that don't conform to their additions can expect to be cast into the outer darkness.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Yahu,

You have misunderstood what I said, and I would also suggest that you fundamentally misunderstand what lust is. In fact, the argument that you are advancing is almost identical to what elements within the Corinthian Church wrote to Paul, and he responded to in his epistles to the Corinthians.

Sexual desire, physical sex drive, etc. is not inherently sinful, nor is it the same thing as lust.

Lust is at its core a proper, good desire that has been disordered, or put out of its proper place. Virtually every sinful desire can be traced back to a good, true desire that has been twisted and run amok.

In our original unfallen state, man's being was ordered fundamentally differently than it is now after the fall. Our physical bodies, the physical desires, as well as our soulish desires, were perfectly submitted to our will and they were given as gifts to serve us and to help us attain to God's ultimate plan for humanity.

Looking specifically at sexual desire, right sexual desire was given to us to be fulfilled within the marriage relationship. It was given to enhance the marriage relationship and help make it the supreme joy and pleasure that it is. This truth, however, is not just about physical temporal marriage in this world. Everything in this world was given to point to and to teach us about the world to come.

Marriage in this world was given to point forward to our communion with God in the world to come. As two become one in marriage, we will experience communion for eternity with God, sharing in his life and his love.
The ecstasy that man and wife experience in the giving of themselves to each other in the marital act is meant to point us to the eternal ecstasy that we will experience when we share eternally in the life and love of God.

Within the context it is absolutely right and good that husband and wife should feel desire for each other, they should feel desire for their sexual union, just as we should all desire the communion with God that is represented by the husband wife relationship.

However, the fact that we are fallen, sinful creatures, living in a fallen sinful world, means that our desires do not work as they original did. Specifically our desires no longer serve our will, they are no longer subject perfectly to our will as they were in our original state.

Now our desires and our passions, both those of the physical body and those of the soul (such as pride) seek to rule us, rather than to be ruled by us. They seek to drive our will and govern our lives, rather than being subject to our will and serving our lives.

The idea that you must placate your physical desires as they come is fundamentally unchristian. Nothing could be more unbiblical.
The very thing that God wants to do in sanctifying us, and the very thing that the Christian life is all about is putting your desires back in right order. Subjecting your physical and soulish desires to your will, enlightened and empowered by the Spirit.

The central idea of the Christian life, of denying yourself and daily taking up your cross, putting to death your old self, is all about subjecting your fleshly desires, the desires of this world to a greater desire for the world to come.

To say that you must obey the desires of you fleshly body is a flat denial of the essence of the Christian life.

Further, your statement that forced celibacy is from pagan religions is also patently false. Celibacy comes from Old Testament Hebrew religion. All Israelite priests and Levites were required to observe celibacy while they served in the temple. When God made the covenant with Israel at Sinai, the very first requirement he put on them, in order to allow the nation to come into his presence was that they all abstain from sex.

Abstaining from sex, even within the bounds of marriage, is well established in Old Testament religion.

Consider for a moment in the book of Revelation, the 144,000 who "had not defiled themselves with women". Many modern Christians assume this to mean that they were virgins. That's really not what it means at all. First that view, ironically, suggests that ever having sex at all is a defilement, which is not the case. This is actually a reference to the concept of ritual purity, which again was well established within Jewish culture going back to the Old Testament. Specifically, it is a reference to the fact that those 144,000 were ritually pure for temple service because they were celibate.

Going even further, consider for a moment that no one HAS to have sexual release. There is a physical drive and desire for it of course, but it is not like anyone is going to die if they abstain.
Food on the other hand actually IS a life and death necessity. Yet we are even called as Christians to practice temporary abstinence from food specifically for the purpose of taming the desires of the flesh and teaching ourselves to put the desires of the flesh, the desires of this world beneath the desire for the life of the world to come.

Sexual desire is good, just like desire for food is good. The enjoyment of sex is good, just like enjoyment of food is good. Those things are gifts that God gave us both out of his goodness, and also because he intended them to point to even greater goods in the world to come.

The problem is that we, by our fallen nature, pursue the good things of this world in such a way that they obscure the better things of the world to come. We allow our desires to blind us, rather than putting them in their place and making them serve us.

People in Corinth wrote to Paul saying almost the exact same argument that you have put forward. (1st Corinthians 16:12) They started with "all things are lawful for me" (you didn't say this) Paul's response to their statement was the statement "but not all things are helpful". His point being, even a good thing can get in the way if you use it wrongly. The Corinthians here were focused on this world, but Paul wants them to forget this world and look to the world to come.

They said to Paul "the stomach was made for food, and food for the stomach". This argument is in the spirit of what you have said. This is what the body was made for, therefore we should allow it, and do it. Paul's response again is "and God will destroy both the stomach and food".

There is obviously nothing wrong with eating, and it is clearly true that the stomach was made for food and food for the stomach. However, the real issue is are you focusing on the desire and enjoyment of food in this world in such a way that it blinds you and distracts you from the world to come. This world, including your stomach, and the food, is all going to perish, and if you have built your life around satisfying the desires of this world, you will perish with it.

Next in 1st Corinthians 16 Paul doesn't quote what the Corinthians had said to him, but it clearly had to do with sex because his response is this...
"the body was not made for sexual immorality, but for the lord..."

Your body was not made for the purpose of satisfying your fleshly desires. It was not made to be a tool, or a toy for you to use to serve your own desires. If you are a Christian your body does not belong to you, it belongs to God.

In this passage Paul is not specifically addressing masturbation clearly, he mentions uniting your body with a prostitute which is a different form of sexual immorality. But his defining point for why a Christian should never do such a thing is precisely because your body is holy. It is sacred and set apart. In fact Paul goes so far as to say here that your body is God's temple.

The point is that sexual immorality profanes the temple of God.

Masturbation is wrong an two key levels.
#1 it divorces sexual desire from its proper place. True, pure, sexual desire is not simply the desire to use your body like a toy, it is the desire to give yourself to another person, and for them to give themself to you.
Divorcing sexual desire from inter-personal love is the very definition of lust.

#2 masturbation is an act of profaning your own body and objectifying yourself. The basis of everything in our Christian life has to be the perspective that this world, its desires, and even its goods (like food, sex, even marriage) are temporary, and are going to perish. They were given to point forward to something greater and when you focus on pursuing and satisfying the things of this world, it distracts you from the very purpose for which this world was given.

 

[Alithis]

too many excuse fulfilling the sinful desire of the flesh and intellectually attempt to justify doing so.
instead of just being honest before God about it .

I have debated the topic in the past and having been set Absolutely free by the power of God - i will hold to what he has taught me (where unto you have already obtained walk by the same rule mind the same thing- paraphrased from philippians ch 3)

the truth is - we are called to walk after the SPIRIT and NOT after the flesh for the ways of the flesh are sinful from its center ,being the heart.
And the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked .

So just be honest about it and don't ever try to justify the flesh or its desires . flesh always seeks to gratify itself - what spiritual good is it doing any one else ? none .. then it is not of the Spirit and not to be walked in.

God loves you ,and he knows and understands and has made a way in Christ for us all to be free from all sin . not just the sins you don't like .

 

[Alithis]

that is to say simon templar , in short

I AGREE with what you are saying