Want to read criticism of EO belief/practice.

[Huram Abi]

boy this thread has really gotten derailed as of late... How bout you all start another Law /Torah thread or post in one of the 10 ones we have already...

The thread is 94 pages deep. There is a certain amount of entropy to be expected the longer a thread goes on.

 

[Albion]

It's probably fair to say that this thread wasn't entirely legitimate in the first place, but if we keep to the stated purpose...offering criticisms of the EO just to ventilate them, we could return to doing that. Anyone got an offering (I know that we've already run through all the obvious ones)?

 

[Huram Abi]

I suppose that the thread needs to either expand or die, since you'd just have to recycle the previous conversations that happened earlier in the thread.

 

[file13]

It's probably fair to say that this thread wasn't entirely legitimate in the first place, but if we keep to the stated purpose...offering criticisms of the EO just to ventilate them, we could return to doing that. Anyone got an offering (I know that we've already run through all the obvious ones)?

Uh, this thread is long, so not sure if these have been covered, but here's some of personal favorite things.

• What exactly is this mysterious thing called "Tradition?"
• How does one determine which Tradition is correct when you have competing and contradictory ones? Ask your priest?
• How does one determine which Ecumenical Councils are valid outside of another Ecumenical Council?
• Why exactly can't the entire EO church figure out what goes in their Bible?
• What exactly do you mean when you sing about Christ trampling down death when you'll still die and be damned based on your own performance based works?
• If the EO claim that no one can know if anyone is saved or not, how can you claim to know that some people are in heaven (aka, the saints)? Mob rule makes saints?
• If Tradition is just as authoritative as Scripture and the consensus of the Fathers says birth control is wrong, why are you inconsistent on the issue of birth control and don't plop till you drop like the Roman Catholics?

Gotta run, but there's some.

 

[Albion]

Uh, this thread is long, so not sure if these have been covered, but here's some of personal favorite things.

• What exactly is this mysterious thing called "Tradition?"

We did that at length awhile ago, but not on this thread.

• [*]How does one determine which Tradition is correct when you have competing and contradictory ones? Ask your priest?
  [*]

• That was part of the above.

• How does one determine which Ecumenical Councils are valid outside of another Ecumenical Council?
• Why exactly can't the entire EO church figure out what goes in their Bible?
• What exactly do you mean when you sing about Christ trampling down death when you'll still die and be damned based on your own performance based works?

• If the EO claim that no one can know if anyone is saved or not, how can you claim to know that some people are in heaven (aka, the saints)? Mob rule makes saints?

I like that last one FWIW

 

[Standing Up]

We did that at length awhile ago, but not on this thread.

• That was part of the above.

[/list]I like that last one FWIW

That last one is a mystery. We don't know if anyone is saved, but we'll ask the departed anyway.

 

[razeontherock]

boy this thread has really gotten derailed as of late... How bout you all start another Law /Torah thread or post in one of the 10 ones we have already...

Ya I thought this thread was sposed to be about EO? I thought they weren't all concerned with Torah ...

 

[SolomonVII]

Ya I thought this thread was sposed to be about EO? I thought they weren't all concerned with Torah ...

Given that Torah is the first five books of the Bible, is that a criticism of EO, or a commendation?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Don't need no Torah.

Forgive me...

 

[file13]

That last one is a mystery. We don't know if anyone is saved, but we'll ask the departed anyway.

That's not true. The EO only pray to certain EO approved saints. They don't pray to Barlaam or Martin Luther. So clearly they seem to have some idea as to who's in and who's out.

Of course, if you look into how they "canonize" a saint, you'll see it's because the mob decided so. I.e. enough people claim they prayed to this saint for something and it came true, thus, they must be a saint! Of course, the more popular the person was, the more likely folks will pray to them to being with, and thus, if the thing that prayed for happen to occur (whether or not the saint had anything to do with it), it's assumed the saint did it. It's kinda like American Idol now, the most popular win. But ya know, this is what folk theology looks like.

 

[Kristos]

Uh, this thread is long, so not sure if these have been covered, but here's some of personal favorite things.

• What exactly is this mysterious thing called "Tradition?"
• How does one determine which Tradition is correct when you have competing and contradictory ones? Ask your priest?
• How does one determine which Ecumenical Councils are valid outside of another Ecumenical Council?
• Why exactly can't the entire EO church figure out what goes in their Bible?
• What exactly do you mean when you sing about Christ trampling down death when you'll still die and be damned based on your own performance based works?
• If the EO claim that no one can know if anyone is saved or not, how can you claim to know that some people are in heaven (aka, the saints)? Mob rule makes saints?
• If Tradition is just as authoritative as Scripture and the consensus of the Fathers says birth control is wrong, why are you inconsistent on the issue of birth control and don't plop till you drop like the Roman Catholics?

Gotta run, but there's some.

I will ask my priest and get back to you

 

[razeontherock]

I will ask my priest and get back to you

It is good to be able to laugh at ourselves

 

[file13]

I will ask my priest and get back to you

Though when you do, please ask him how he knows and see if you see any recursion.

 

[Kristos]

Though when you do, please ask him how he knows and see if you see any recursion.

You obviously haven't met my priest.

 

[file13]

You obviously haven't met my priest.

I'm sure you're right.

Though would you care to go into more details as to how he knows what he knows? For example, let's use the aerial toll-houses. How does he know what he knows about them?

 

[Kristos]

I'm sure you're right.

Though would you care to go into more details as to how he knows what he knows? For example, let's use the aerial toll-houses. How does he know what he knows about them?

He died once...so I guess you could say he has first hand experience

 

[file13]

He died once...so I guess you could say he has first hand experience

So in Orthodoxy, personal experience is a valid and authoritative source of knowing?

 

[Rick Otto]

He died once...so I guess you could say he has first hand experience

Was it his timing or his delivery? I hear an audience full of EO's can be a tough room to work.

 

[cupid dave]

How come no one has mentioned the icons?


Iconoclasm may be carried out by people of a different religion, but is often the result of sectarian disputes between factions of the same religion. The two Byzantine outbreaks during the 8th and 9th centuries were unusual in that the use of images was the main issue in the dispute, rather than a by-product of wider concerns. In Christianity, iconoclasm has generally been motivated by people who adopt a literal interpretation of the Ten Commandments, which forbid the making and worshipping of "graven images." The degree of iconoclasm among Christian sects has varied greatly.

 

[file13]

How come no one has mentioned the icons?

I personally don't because it's too emotionally loaded and their responses will reflect their "unique" way of interpreting Scripture.

If you ask me, it's better to go right to their epistemology so you can see how they must put blind faith in their church, since they cannot discern truth on their own since their system is either ad hoc, convoluted, recursive, and arbitrary or else it's based on personal expereince and they like some charismatics can come to truth through subjective mystical experiences. Either way, what they end up saying is "We're the One True Church because we say we're the One True Church."