Bin Laden has been killed !!!!

[WarriorAngel]

If they could, they most certainly would. They only thing that makes it empty is lake of materials.

1998 ABC correspondence according to the media stated they procured enriched uranium...in Egypt and at that time BL was in Iraq exchanging deals with Saddam as a guest.
See, Muslims dont care who they use to get what they want - as BL used the US in the desert storm too.

That whole - 'nah he wouldnt work with Saddam because Saddam wasnt practicing Muslim' - then turn about face and say we trained BL under Bush Sr - just knocks my socks off because it is hypocrisy.
And yah, he helped the US troops because he had a means to an ends....and used us and it was his gain to work with us.
But we were never Muslims either.

O yah, another thing the other side refuses to believe.... that WMD exist.

O ok.

SO whatever - if it happens it happens. am i right?

 

[WarriorAngel]

I laughed when I heard one correspondent's comment after it was found that Obama has decided *not* to release the photos of the bin Laden kill. It was suggested that seeing the photos would inflame the Muslim terrorists. Without missing a beat she asked, "Aren't they *already* inflamed?"

Pretty much.

 

[JoabAnias]

one shot one kill.

The 50 cal was first developed by Browning as a larger version of the 30 cal and first called the M2 or mah deuce toward the end of WWI.

Its purpose was to be used as a light armor machine gun.

Its use was prohibited by the Geneva convention as inhumane against combatants.

An exception is the Barret LRSR which is 50 cal for long range and has registered kill shots of over a mile.

Even a M14 can have a scope mounted and be used to snipe.

 

[StThomasMore]

The 50 cal was first developed by Browning as a larger version of the 30 cal and first called the M2 or mah deuce toward the end of WWI.

Its purpose was to be used as a light armor machine gun.

Its use was prohibited by the Geneva convention as inhumane against combatants.

An exception is the Barret LRSR which is 50 cal for long range and has registered kill shots of over a mile.

Even a M14 can have a scope mounted and be used to snipe.

Yea I think the LSLR is the standard .50 cal sniper rifle for the military today. The M107. Didn't know about the Geneva thing though. The magazines that hold the bullets looks around the size of an 80s atari system, lol. The military must have found a loophole around it. Then again lotsa countries break Geneva rules. People can even buy this gun if they wanna shell 8,000$ for it

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct468.aspx



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtzk8HNPzHY&feature=related

 

[SolomonVII]

1998 ABC correspondence according to the media stated they procured enriched uranium...in Egypt and at that time BL was in Iraq exchanging deals with Saddam as a guest.
See, Muslims dont care who they use to get what they want - as BL used the US in the desert storm too.

That whole - 'nah he wouldnt work with Saddam because Saddam wasnt practicing Muslim' - then turn about face and say we trained BL under Bush Sr - just knocks my socks off because it is hypocrisy.
And yah, he helped the US troops because he had a means to an ends....and used us and it was his gain to work with us.
But we were never Muslims either.

O yah, another thing the other side refuses to believe.... that WMD exist.

O ok.

SO whatever - if it happens it happens. am i right?

People have good cause to be concerned. Wrong thinking is that Islamist would use these weapons as a reaction against the West. Of course people with fanatic zeal for their religion do not kill merely as a reaction against perceived wrongs. They kill for Allah, because he has commanded them to in the Koran.
Our crime lies only in not being Muslim, and refusing to submit ourselves to the Prophet.
Fanatics do not need us to give them their reason. Their reason does not lie in us; it lies in their religion.

 

[JoabAnias]

Yea I think the LSLR is the standard .50 cal sniper rifle for the military today. The M107. Didn't know about the Geneva thing though. The magazines that hold the bullets looks around the size of an 80s atari system, lol. The military must have found a loophole around it. Then again lotsa countries break Geneva rules. People can even buy this gun if they wanna shell 8,000$ for it

I don't know what the rules of engagement are for a Barret. I was just recalling what they were for a Browning back in my overseas days. I think ROE vary depending on circumstances. I don't remember any more than that and would have to look it up. The M2 fires 750–850 rounds per minute. That would be overkill on a person. Its nothing to trace in on a long range target at 1500 yards with it.

Just imagine what this weapon would do to a human:
YouTube - Full Auto .50 BMG "Ma Deuce"

The M249 (same round as M16) which replaced the M60 will more than mow a person down.

The 50 will blow up an APC.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I laughed when I heard one correspondent's comment after it was found that Obama has decided *not* to release the photos of the bin Laden kill. It was suggested that seeing the photos would inflame the Muslim terrorists. Without missing a beat she asked, "Aren't they *already* inflamed?"

Releasing the photos would bring us down to the level of Al Qaeda, who released videos of beheading hostages and others in the middle east dragging burnt bodies of US Pilots through the streets.

Obama's decision not to release the photos shows wisdom and moral strength in refraining from ego-centric posturing displaying a dead man's body as some sort of a trophy.

I'm amazed to see that some Catholics don't understand this.

Jim

 

[D'Ann]

I heard that they used heavy duty type of guns and that the back head was blown off and the front of the face caved in and do we really want to see that?

I'm sure that our government in time will provide sufficient evidence of Osama's death, but it will be more with a death certificate and also dna evidence. I don't want to see someone dead. (sorry)

I also believe that the fact that Al-queada is saying that Osama is a "mortyar (?spelling).. tells me, he is dead. Also, if he wasn't dead, we would have heard from him by now... laughing his head off at us dumb Americans. So... I understand people wanting to see evidence, and I do hope our government will supply us with some kind of actual evidence, but I do hope it is done with taste and not disgust.

 

[Tigg]

I hope he is dead. When the supposed facts keep changing, well, seems like a well planned take down ends up now as amateur hour from the govt. Too many "facts" have changed. Becoming lies and/or what? Surely the White House and the Pres. knows what went down, as we are told they watched in real time. Or maybe they didn't. I do not know cause once one lies then all becomes suspect as lies. I only hope he is dead.

What a bunch of hooey. I wonder why the sea burial now and so fast. Why? Yes, I know the standard answer they are putting out but it doesn't make too much sense. Ah well...

Reuters acquired pictures and checked those before buying them. They are real, no tampering etc. They show two dead. Pity our govt will not confirm BL's death.

Edit: Not 2 dead but 3. My mistake but dont want to spread any mistakes.

 

[AMDG]

I'm amazed to see that some Catholics don't understand this.

Jim, it matters not to me that I don't see the picture. It's enough for me that the murderer of thousands is dead. It's just funny that the big concern is for the sensibilities of the Muslim terrorists (who have taken videos of American journalists slowly being beheaded)! I would have understood worries about the Seal Team that accomplished the deed, but no it's that we might "inflame the Muslim terrorists". That response just strikes me as "funny".

And don't tell me that it's so we can be "better than them". Folks sure didn't mind that the Abu Grave (I can't spell) photos were splashed all over the papers over and over and over again. And that was just a couple of Americans breaking laws and acting boorishly to Muslim prisoners. In fact, the "left" seemed to positively love the fact that some people on the "right" were caught acting poorly, while the rest of us thought the behavior awful and those that did it were brought to justice.

Justice and closure. That's what this is about. (And since you once said that you worked in hospice you should know how important closure is. Without it the trauma continues.) Americans were grievouly harmed by bin Laden, so I can see that they have an interest--the pictures actually belong to them, IMO. I guess they think that the pictures would *prove* that the nightmare is finally over and that they can begin to live again.

 

[SolomonVII]

I'd be fine with it either way, frankly. Just good that justice was served.

 

[AMDG]

I'd be fine with it either way, frankly. Just good that justice was served.

I too am just glad that justice was served--don't know about the 9-11 families and all though. And I'm starting to think that the pictures *will* eventually be leaked or released just to distract us from the changing story. That the story is changing (by the minute it seems) is a tad unsettling to me.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

AMDG

And don't tell me that it's so we can be "better than them". Folks sure didn't mind that the Abu Grave (I can't spell) photos were splashed all over the papers over and over and over again.

Folks surly did mind when the pics of the Abu-Ghraib prison came out.
However, it wasn't the government who released them, but the soldiers involved who posted them on the web and emailed them around. They eventually ended up being seen by various people in the government and media, hence the scandal became public and it cause irreparable harm to our nation and our military.

And that was just a couple of Americans breaking laws and acting boorishly to Muslim prisoners. In fact, the "left" seemed to positively love the fact that some people on the "right" were caught acting poorly, while the rest of us thought the behavior awful and those that did it were brought to justice.

Actually, people on the left and the right were appalled and the fact that the damage done to our nation and military was a great concern of theirs.

This in no way justifies releasing the photos of Bin Laden, and I wonder why you're using it in your argument?

Justice and closure. That's what this is about. (And since you once said that you worked in hospice you should know how important closure is. Without it the trauma continues.)

Closure comes in many forms. You can not compare the closure a family needs when their loved one passes on, with closure for the deaths commited by a terrorist.

Americans were grievouly harmed by bin Laden, so I can see that they have an interest--the pictures actually belong to them, IMO. I guess they think that the pictures would *prove* that the nightmare is finally over and that they can begin to live again.

Americans were grievously harmed by Bin Laden, but in our grief we don't lose our moral compass and become like him or one of his disciples.

Radical Islamic Terrorist are not our role models, we should not justify our actions by what they do.

Jim

 

[AMDG]

You can not compare the closure a family needs when their loved one passes on, with closure for the deaths commited by a terrorist.

I can and I do. (You must not have heard that agonizing statement of the woman whose son was killed in that 9-11 attack. She said that for ten years now, she has felt alone--like no one understands her grief.) For those people's peace of mind, allow *them* to make the decision to see the photos or not. It shouldn't be up to a few elite (who have already had a viewing chance) to decide what's "best" for a grieving 9-11 family member.

Again, I repeat that the reason we have funerals is to provide closure to those left behind. And I can tell you from experience that a person who is not allowed closure continues to suffer from the fact that they weren't allowed. The families of 9-11 need closure. They need to know (beyond any shadow of a doubt) that the nightmare is finally over. They need to have concret proof that the killer of their innocent loved one has been brought to justice in order for the families to be able to live again. And yes, they *need* it more so than the "elite", or the rest of us. It's not grisly voyeurism for them. They need closure. Not the closure you or I would think or need and not the closure that the "elite" want to allow, but the closure that *they* need.

 

[JoabAnias]

Anger is understood but thats not closure.

Closure is found in acceptance. Morbidity does not equate to closure. That would be triumphalism in this case.

Whats done is over, its healthiest to accept it and move on.

And eye for an eye was his level. We should rise above.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

AMDG

I can and I do. (You must not have heard that agonizing statement of the woman whose son was killed in that 9-11 attack. She said that for ten years now, she has felt alone--like no one understands her grief.) For those people's peace of mind, allow *them* to make the decision to see the photos or not. It shouldn't be up to a few elite (who have already had a viewing chance) to decide what's "best" for a grieving 9-11 family member.

Bin Laden's death will not satisfy the families of the victims, just as capital punishment doesn't satisfy the vitims families.

Showing pictures of a man with half his head blown off will only serve to add pain and horror to the pyschy of the individual who views it.

Again, I repeat that the reason we have funerals is to provide closure to those left behind.

And again, equating this type of closure with the death of a murderer are not the same.

All the family members of 9-11 victims that I saw on the news said that the death of Bin Laden doesn't bring closure, but they are glad he's gone.



Jim

 

[AMDG]

Anger is understood but thats not closure.

Closure is found in acceptance. Morbidity does not equate to closure. That would be triumphalism in this case.

Whats done is over, its healthiest to accept it and move on.

And eye for an eye was his level. We should rise above.

It's not about anger--it's a matter of closure for the 9-11 families. And what's done may be done but people cannot move on until they have closure.

(It was like that with my mother when my step-father died. My mother had become ill and I was thousands of miles away. Other family thought they were doing her a favor "don't worry about anything--we'll take care of it all--you just 'move on'". She accepted. So they swooped down, whisked him off, had the funeral in another state, and she never had the closure she needed--and it showed until her own death. She didn't realize that there was a need for closure. Most people don't even realize that they need it. Heck I didn't even realize that it was needed until I worked with "death acceptance" at a hospital as part of my Stephen's Minister training--and later in hospice.)

As I said, you and I don't need to see the pictures that show that someone's beloved spouse/child/friend did not die in vain--that the killer received justice, but the 9-11 families may and IMO it should be their decision to view an available picture or not-- *not* some elite that has already viewed. Until the 9-11 family sees that bin Laden is really, really dead, there may always be a doubt for the 9-11 family and they will *not* be able to "move on".

I surely hope, for their sakes, that this will not be turned into a political thing.

 

[JoabAnias]

It's not about anger--it's a matter of closure for the 9-11 families. And what's done may be done but people cannot move on until they have closure.

Yes they can and they have it. He is dead.

If some doesn't believe that now, seeing a horribly graphic picture isn't going to convince them and its not about Bin Laden or politics anymore if they don't, its about something else.

Morbid triumphalism isn't a gift or going to bring closure of any kind or satiate any emotions for anyone.

Indulging the desire for revenge is not who we are called to be.

 

[JoabAnias]

AMDG,

I just went over and started to read the thread about Obama not releasing the pictures and the third post #3 was by you that said:

Would it make any difference? Bin Laden is dead. IMO, that's all that should matter.

Did you change your mind somewhere?

 

[WarriorAngel]

warning; graphic

Inside bin Laden's Compound