it is only right to commemorate them together? should we honor the Cathars who were killed too?
I see no reason why not, particularly given my name. The Cathars were not evil people; quite the opposite, but it is hard to say the same for those who burned them.
Having a religious faith does not give any of us the right to go around killing those who do not share our views. If such people are otherwise innocent, then we need to repent our past sins, and commend their faith, even if their faith is not the same as ours.
When I commemorate the English martyrs, I commemorate those from
all sides who died innocent of any crime, but simply because of their belief, and I think this is the normal Anglican view (no doubt someone will correct me, if I am mistaken). Ultimately each one of those people has laid down his or her life for our freedom of belief. We enter eternity because of our love for God and our fellow men, not because of our strict orthodoxy. By the latter criterion, few of us would qualify.
The alternative is to condone or even celebrate the murder of innocent people. As I said above, we have moved on from that position, somewhat.
And to return to the OP, anyone who thinks that celebrating the foiling of the Gunpowder Plot is to be deplored, look at what happens when such a plot succeeds. And see exactly
why it is important to remember November 5. Not because we want to deplore Roman Catholicism. But because we want to deplore cold blooded murder, such as this,
whoever perpetrates it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airey_Neave
Airey Neave was killed on 30 March 1979, when a car bomb fitted with a mercury tilt switch exploded under his Vauxhall Cavalier at 2.58pm as he drove out of the Palace of Westminster (ie Parliament) car park. Both of his legs were blown off and he died in hospital an hour after being freed from the wreckage. The Irish National Liberation Army (INLA), an Irish Republican organisation banned in the United Kingdom under anti-terrorism legislation claimed responsibility for the killing.
as for the killing of innocents, it is horrible but in all wars there is loss of life of innocent people, does this mean that we can never have any wars?
if you are a total pacifist then i can not really argue with you
Pacificm is a different subject, and probably needs a different thread, rather than confusing this one further. All I would say is that it is deplorable that any of us can simply shrug our shoulders, and say of innocent lives being lost, in effect; 'Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.' I think God is likely to take rather a stronger view on murder than this.
On this thread, however, we are talking about what Bonfire Night represents, which is attempted murder, equating in the case of the Gunpowder Plot to treason. And particularly in contrast with the death of innocent martyrs for our faith, by which I mean the Christian faith, not the Anglican or Roman Catholic one. And innocent meaning their only crime was that of belief. If any other crime is involved along the way, then clearly they cannot be Christian martyrs. We are all free to die for our faith. We are none of us sanctioned to murder for it.