Obama Signs Children's Health Insurance Bill

Status
Not open for further replies.

ShannonMcCatholic

I swallowed a bug
Feb 2, 2004
15,792
1,447
✟30,743.00
Faith
Catholic
Oh! Yay! More mythical money. :clap: Anyone think I could get away with using play money like Congress does? Money doesn't mean much to their plans, it just drops out of the sky--after all they just voted themselves a raise--unlike most of America who will not only not be getting raises this year, but might not even have a job.

How about we just give every person upon his or her birth some random amount of money...say $50,000. Then they can afford healthcare throughout childhood, education, etc.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

benedictaoo

Legend
Dec 1, 2007
34,418
7,261
✟72,332.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
I think ppl need to be more concern with how this bill takes away a liberty from us.

All it did was take away a right to not have to buy insurance for our children if we feel we can not afford it or feel we would rather pay for their medial care out of our pockets.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mom2Alex
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,166
13,240
✟1,094,746.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Attention, "Let them eat cake" pro-lifers:

Let's start with the first premise. You don't have to convince one another that abortion is bad. You know abortion is bad.

You have to convince the unconvinced that abortion is bad by showing how much you respect and honor all life.

Do you know how much the attitudes you are displaying in this thread disgust and appall the "liberal" Americans whose hearts you are trying to change?

Before they will listen to you, they must first be convinced that you really care about children. Born children.

I am telling you this because I want you to succeed, and I'm a fairly liberal person with fairly liberal friends. I'm telling you what it takes.

Lose the "let them eat cake" attitude.
 
Upvote 0

AMDG

Tenderized for Christ
May 24, 2004
25,362
1,286
74
Pacific Northwest, United States
✟47,022.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I think ppl need to be more concern with how this bill takes away a liberty from us.

All it did was take away a right to not have to buy insurance for our children if we feel we can not afford it or feel we would rather pay for their medial care out of our pockets.

Yes, a freedom has been taken away, but it's the practical side in me that causes me to be concerned. Before "health insurance" was so popular, medical care was very available and very easy to pay "out-of-pocket". Then we inserted a "middleman" between us and the doctor. The price of medical care zoomed out of sight because of it. (The "middleman has to make a profit you know.) And since there is a "middleman" (someone else doing the paying), he get's to make the rules--what kind of care and when plus who you are allowed to see. (I was on one of those plans--took me three months to get "permission" for a procedure that needed to be done every four months and when the four months came around again, I had to get "permission" all over. Both the doctor and specialist found it ridiculous, time consuming, and expensive, so now I just pay "out-of-pocket" for care, but with this...it's only a matter of time. Daughter also has one of those "middlemen" for the health care of her children. She's very unhappy. Only some things are allowed, some doctors, and a very long wait. Now she'll no longer be able to "save up" for needed medical care for her child when the "middleman" says "no".)

Don't you all remember all the jokes about those health plans--HMOs? Why are we "falling over ourselves" to wish that awful stuff on our children? And what does this teach? We need not have parental responsibilty?

And must I remind you all that this is very costly at a time when the nation can ill afford it? Actually it's just another "bail out". It's just another part of the ill-conceived "stimulus package".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mom2Alex
Upvote 0

Fish and Bread

Dona nobis pacem
Jan 31, 2005
14,109
2,389
✟68,185.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Oh! Yay! More mythical money. :clap: Anyone think I could get away with using play money like Congress does? Money doesn't mean much to their plans, it just drops out of the sky--after all they just voted themselves a raise--unlike most of America who will not only not be getting raises this year, but might not even have a job.

The economic stimulus coming up is first and foremost designed to create jobs and put money in the hands of working people through various methods (including tax cuts for the poor and the middle class). A lot of our roads and bridges are in severe disrepair (Remember that bridge collapsing a few years back?), because we haven't invested enough money for repairs. By doing it a swell swoop, we'll not only make it safer to drive, we'll also be creating a lot of temporary jobs to get that repair work done. Similarly, there would be upgrades to the electric grid, which should bring down electric costs and create jobs in that field. And expansion of broadband, which brings the 21st century to more people and improves quality of life while -- creating jobs. And every time a job is created, particularly a lower to middle class one, that's one more person spending money on things, which helps save or create more jobs.

Anyhow, that's not really the topic of the thread, but that's part of why you spend money if you're the government in a down economy. Spending money, especially on job creation or tax cuts for poor folks who spend every dime they get, is a net boost for the overall economy.

Granted, I don't know that this health care thing will create too many jobs, but it's a moral issue -- children have the right to be medicine and such when they are sick. All people do. And with the economy worsening, fewer and fewer children will have health care through ordinary means.

How about we just give every person upon his or her birth some random amount of money...say $50,000. Then they can afford healthcare throughout childhood, education, etc.

Giving away money to people at birth for those sorts of expenses, like you describe, is a nice idea, but it's one of those things that isn't likely to actually work. One reason is that giving away a large chunk of money to everyone across the board directly has an inflationary effect. If we all suddenly have 50 grand in our pockets, suddenly it costs $35 a person to eat a McDonald's becuase they know they can get away with charging that much. Even if the money is earmarked to only be spent on healthcare and education and so forth, in a capitalist market, that would just mean that, ultimately, healthcare and education would become 50 grand or so more expensive, meaning that in a sense getting the money was worthless. The economy is self-adjusting to some degree.

That's why most of the first world has government run health care rather than investment accounts for health care or whatever else people might think up. Having the government do it prevents corporations from just raising the cost by whatever extra amount people are given, it's cost control and ensures access for everyone. It also allows for bulk discounts on the purchase of drugs and medical equipment and so on and so forth.
 
Upvote 0

Fish and Bread

Dona nobis pacem
Jan 31, 2005
14,109
2,389
✟68,185.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Yes, a freedom has been taken away, but it's the practical side in me that causes me to be concerned. Before "health insurance" was so popular, medical care was very available and very easy to pay "out-of-pocket". Then we inserted a "middleman" between us and the doctor. The price of medical care zoomed out of sight because of it. (The "middleman has to make a profit you know.) And since there is a "middleman" (someone else doing the paying), he get's to make the rules--what kind of care and when plus who you are allowed to see. (I was on one of those plans--took me three months to get "permission" for a procedure that needed to be done every four months and when the four months came around again, I had to get "permission" all over. Both the doctor and specialist found it ridiculous, time consuming, and expensive, so now I just pay "out-of-pocket" for care, but with this...it's only a matter of time. Daughter also has one of those "middlemen" for the health care of her children. She's very unhappy. Only some things are allowed, some doctors, and a very long wait. Now she'll no longer be able to "save up" for needed medical care for her child when the "middleman" says "no".)

Don't you all remember all the jokes about those health plans--HMOs? Why are we "falling over ourselves" to wish that awful stuff on our children? And what does this teach? We need not have parental responsibilty?

I'd like to see, in the long run, HMOs eliminated for the mainstream. If we could get truly government-run universal health care, we'd do that. We'd take the profit out of it, and not allow people to deny treatment for pre-existing conditions and so forth. Then people could still buy a private plan instead if that's what they really want. Unfortuantely, there's a lot of political opposition to that, so we'll probably have to settle for half measures. The Obama plan (The one from the campaign, not the one that just became law) doesn't go as far as all that, but it is a step in the right direction.

There's actually a conversation on one of the Nixon tapes where an aide is talking to President Nixon (a Republican) about these new-fangled things called HMOs and explains that actually they make money by denying people coverage for as much as possible and Nixon says they are a great idea. That's part of why we need to get Republican politicians out of making decisions on health care, and let the Democrats have a crack at it.

And must I remind you all that this is very costly at a time when the nation can ill afford it? Actually it's just another "bail out". It's just another part of the ill-conceived "stimulus package".
Check out my post above. The stimulus package is really a job creation bill, and a way to put money into the hands of the lower and middle class who really need it in a bad economy. Spending money is how we got out of the first Republican Great Depression, when the country fell apart under President Hoover, and President Roosevelt fixed it.
 
Upvote 0

JCFantasy23

In a Kingdom by the Sea.
Jul 1, 2008
46,723
6,386
Lakeland, FL
✟502,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The fact is, there are children who need it without health care or with inadequate health care. There are big gaps between medicaid coverage and the amount where a parent of a lot of children would be able to pay out of pocket for health insurance, especially as premiums continue to rise, for example. This is a very important program, that will help children.

And, yes, I believe that all children should be insured. Even a well-off family that can pay most bills out of pocket, may not be able to afford bills for hundreds of thousands of dollars or more when children get cancer or another serious health difficulty of that nature.

Providing health care is an important function of government in the 21st century. The rest of the first world has for the most part already realized this and treats all citizens free of cost. Being able to receive health care is a basic human right, as Blessed Pope John XXIII more or less reaffirmed.

I agree. Here I checked into it one time and you have to make under 650 a month I think to get medicaid. Most people making over that but not much over, like 700 a month, or even a 1000, can in no way get a private health insurance plan. Even 1200 a month. If it gets more kids insured, I'll all for it.
 
Upvote 0

AMDG

Tenderized for Christ
May 24, 2004
25,362
1,286
74
Pacific Northwest, United States
✟47,022.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
government-run universal health care

Oh yippee! Government-run HMOs! And here I thought that torture was immoral, but I guess it's okay since it isn't used against enemy combatants but only our innocent children (and by extension their frustrated and worried parents.)

President Roosevelt fixed it.

Oh, brother! Do yourself a favor--read your history. Many of the programs FDR passed, were later declared unconstitutional. And you know, that there also is evidence that FDR actually made the depression worse--it was actually WWII (I know, immoral--a war!) that got us out of the depression.

And about the stimulus package--what's wrong with taking the time to actually look at things and be responsible? We've got to get it right and with no "pork". "Haste makes waste" is a common sense saying. And Shakespeare (and it is argued that he was Catholic and put Catholic morality into his plays) wrote "Wisely and slow. They stumble who run fast."
 
Upvote 0

Auntie

THANK YOU JESUS!!
Apr 16, 2002
7,624
657
Visit site
✟27,878.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Check out my post above. The stimulus package is really a job creation bill, and a way to put money into the hands of the lower and middle class who really need it in a bad economy.


I heard on the news today, the cost to create those jobs is $750,000.00 PER JOB.
 
Upvote 0

Fish and Bread

Dona nobis pacem
Jan 31, 2005
14,109
2,389
✟68,185.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Oh yippee! Government-run HMOs!

That's not what is being discussed.

And here I thought that torture was immoral, but I guess it's okay since it isn't used against enemy combatants but only our innocent children (and by extension their frustrated and worried parents.)

So, it's torture to *provide* children health care, but moral to allow children to go untreated? That doesn't make sense to me.

Oh, brother! Do yourself a favor--read your history.

I have. :) I was a history major in college and maintained a very high GPA in history courses. I didn't graduate for health reasons, and my inability to do well in almost anything *not* history, but history is one of the few things I usually have a very good grasp of (Along with politics and a select few others topics).

And you know, that there also is evidence that FDR actually made the depression worse--it was actually WWII (I know, immoral--a war!) that got us out of the depression.

I've posted evidence here several times that that's not the case. I'm not going to dig it all up for the 70th millionth time. However, the GDP more than doubled between the time Roosevelt took office and when the US started revving up for war (Meaning our economic output had more than doubled). We were well on the road to recovery and, even had the war not broken out, would have gotten out of the first Republican Great Depression pretty soon, based on the way the GDP was rising.

And about the stimulus package--what's wrong with taking the time to actually look at things and be responsible? We've got to get it right and with no "pork". "Haste makes waste" is a common sense saying. And Shakespeare (and it is argued that he was Catholic and put Catholic morality into his plays) wrote "Wisely and slow. They stumble who run fast."

I think we're doing that. There have been elements stripped and elements added and so forth. There's always going to a little pork in a spending project, though, that's just how our governmental system works. It's bad, both parties decry it, but people toss stuff in that it's hard to strip out, and which is sometimes the only way enough people will vote for something. In this case, the plus is, that even most pork may actually create some jobs, which is the purpose of the bill.

I heard on the news today, the cost to create those jobs is $750,000.00 PER JOB.

I suspect that's an exaggerated figure that the show you were watching came up with. Still, even if it's the case, something has to be done. If we sit back and do nothing, we'll slide into a second Republican Great Depression. The economic indicators are really, really bad. Even this package might not be able to dig us and prevent us from sliding further, but we've got to give it a shot. We can't just give up.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Fish and Bread

Dona nobis pacem
Jan 31, 2005
14,109
2,389
✟68,185.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Partisan bias.

Perhaps. It's worth considering that the first Great Depression started on the watch of a Republican, and that, if this turns out to be a second one, it'll turn out to have also started on the watch of a Republican, the same party that had both houses of Congress for 6 of his 8 years. Many historians, at least in part, attribute the first Great Depression to insufficient regulation of the markets, and President Bush spent his time in office deregulating. I see a lot of similarities between what happened in the lead up to the Great Depression and what has happened recently.

In fact, I have heard a clip of Rush Limbaugh saying that FDR is dead and they (the Republican Party) have rolled back many of his policies and are going to roll back the rest of them, and that it's a good thing. Those are the same policies that led us out of the Great Depression, in my view, and may have helped prevent another one. And then many of them get repealed, and here we are in the mists of a very rough economy.

To be fair, I suppose it could all be a coincidence. Coincidences do happen.
 
Upvote 0

benedictaoo

Legend
Dec 1, 2007
34,418
7,261
✟72,332.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
I agree. Here I checked into it one time and you have to make under 650 a month I think to get medicaid. Most people making over that but not much over, like 700 a month, or even a 1000, can in no way get a private health insurance plan. Even 1200 a month. If it gets more kids insured, I'll all for it.


New Low Cost Plan Now Available
LaCHIP offers low cost or no cost health care plans for uninsured Louisiana children up to age 19. Eligibility is based on family size and income. A family of 4 can earn as much as $53,000 and still qualify for LaCHIP coverage for kids.
http://www.dhh.state.la.us/offices/?ID=119
 
Upvote 0

JoabAnias

Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2007
21,200
3,283
✟82,874.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Perhaps. It's worth considering that the first Great Depression started on the watch of a Republican, and that, if this turns out to be a second one, it'll turn out to have also started on the watch of a Republican, the same party that had both houses of Congress for 6 of his 8 years. Many historians, at least in part, attribute the first Great Depression to insufficient regulation of the markets, and President Bush spent his time in office deregulating. I see a lot of similarities between what happened in the lead up to the Great Depression and what has happened recently.

In fact, I have heard a clip of Rush Limbaugh repeatedly saying that FDR is dead and they (the Republican Party) have rolled back many of his policies and are going to roll back the rest of them, and that it's a good thing. Those are the same policies that led us out of the Great Depression. And then many of them get repealed, and here we are in the mists of a very rough economy.

To be fair, I suppose it could all be a coincidence. Coincidences do happen.

I don't blame any party. I blame over extention as the world police.

You can say that it was a republican that did that. It could have just as easily been a Democrat.

Somalia was a flop under Dems and Regan did much good for the economy. Nothing is as black and white as it seems usually.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Auntie

THANK YOU JESUS!!
Apr 16, 2002
7,624
657
Visit site
✟27,878.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
they can just pay that to each who is out of work. save everyone a lot of trouble


That's what I was thinking. If the Gov has so many billions and billions of dollars to hand out, they might as well hand it out to the folks. Or at least give it to the taxpayers who are going to have to pay for this so-called stimulus.
 
Upvote 0

JoabAnias

Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2007
21,200
3,283
✟82,874.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So as I see it, this is either a bill for the rich- because the poor and middle class already have a government health care plan. Or it's just the beginning of them restricting our freedom to choose. Ironic huh?

Remember his platform on Health care?

Its got serious holes in it, but so does the current system. I have BC+BS and pay $100 a month for myself and have more choice than most as far as provider but thats about it.

When I have had Aetna or an HMO I didn't even have that. But any of them is better than using the VA. (except for prescripts).
Under the company I have, if I wanted a Family plan it would go up to near $1000 a month. Thats no option either. Its different by where you live and who you go with for a plan though I think. In the past, (before divorce) I could get a family plan with my last company for $150 a month and not much more than that with a couple other companies but I had no say in which provider my company would go with. Its a take what they offer or not deal. I even tried the flex spending plan one year and that wasn't worth the hassle. The insurance companies are out for mullah and thats their top priority. They need to be regulated imo.

Even with BC+BS I can't choose a generic drug with a lower co-pay that I can get a 90 day supply of most of the time even for a cholesterol pill or choose what lab to use or what is or isn't covered. Its gotten so you have to ask your Dr. to give you something you can afford but the its not going to be what works best. These companies know exactly what they are doing.

How do you see it as only a plan for the rich?

No one is explaining these things.

If Catholic Charities is behind it then maybe we should consider there is some good in it.

Instead everyone is throwing out opinions but not supporting them with any facts.

Sounds gossipy to me. I want whats real and I don't pretend to have any facts but I don't see many given in this thread either except maybe by David and Mom.

Doesn't the link you posted mean that if someone makes less than 53,000 their kids would still qualify for Medicaid and or TANF?

This just seems like an option for those who can't afford a family health care plan to at least be able to get one for their kids.

I don't see Medicaid as much of a choice either.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Auntie

THANK YOU JESUS!!
Apr 16, 2002
7,624
657
Visit site
✟27,878.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The State of Alabama has an excellent health care program for children, it's called "All Kids". It's not medicaid, it is real health insurance with Blue Cross Blue Shield. The annual cost is $50--$100 per child, up to the first 3 children. Because it's real health insurance, you have to pay co-pays, but people tell me it's a really good program.

If the State of Alabama can do this, a relatively poor state, then I don't know why other states can't do the same.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.