Obama Signs Children's Health Insurance Bill

[JoabAnias]

Yes, I agree. It's an absolute disgrace that when courts award child support payments to mothers those awards are so low.

Did you know that child support is automatically set on a scale according to gross income? Doesn't sound like it. It can't be litigated.

 

[Rochir]

Wonderful news from Washington!



http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1584

Yuppers!

 

[JoabAnias]

Yuppers!

 

[benedictaoo]

lol. How about you don't have children if you can't afford to take care of them?



Yeah. That's likely.

I have 6 kids and I afford them just fine. They live pretty well for being 6 of them, thank you very much.

I have never and never will neglect their medial care... when my oldest 4 (19, 17, 14, 12)were babies, I paid for their vaccinations myself because I would never bring them to a clinic or the "shot bus." When we did have insurance after #3 was born, I still paid for their shots and doc visits because their doctor was not on our plan... so you do not know what you are talking about.

I also have an autistic son too, I do not neglect his needs. Thank you very much but it should be my choice if i want to buy insurance for them or pay for it myself.

 

[benedictaoo]

Thanks for the "lesson" but I'm tired of your rude attitude and flaming. It doesn't matter what I say, you'll still twisted into something entirely different. I suggest you cease and desist.

I'm really stating to think that these "poor stories" we read in news papers and hear about on the news, of kids not having enough food and the government having to take care of them, etc, is to subconsciouly get us to think they would be better off aborted.

I really think this is the connection, why librals want to throw money on these programs, so the public will feel aborting them would be better for us all, including the kids.

 

[benedictaoo]

Did you know that child support is automatically set on a scale according to gross income? Doesn't sound like it. It can't be litigated.

Well I will agree that we need serious divorce reform and child support reform in the courts.

Men and women can so easily manipulate their income if they are self employed.

I don't know about other states but in LA, it also goes by the needs of the child, not strictly on income.

For example, if you have 6 kids, you as the primary custodian of the kids need to provide proper housing for them, that is now taken into account. You need to be able to afford that housing. That responsibility should not fall on just one parent.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

OBOB: The Catholic Republican forum.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

OBOB: The Catholic Republican forum.

This thread was started by a Democrat.
.

 

[benedictaoo]

OBOB: The Catholic Republican forum.

Because it falls on the side of life...

 

[Maynard Keenan]

I missed that this thread was so long so I only saw the beginning, but I was posting in reference to the first good bunch of responses which seemed to be nothing but Republican talking points.

 

[benedictaoo]

So?

Are only liberal talking points allowed?

Surly you are not saying OBOB members do not have the right to be republican?

 

[Maynard Keenan]

Just find it amusing sometimes

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Attention, "Let them eat cake" pro-lifers:

Let's start with the first premise. You don't have to convince one another that abortion is bad. You know abortion is bad.

You have to convince the unconvinced that abortion is bad by showing how much you respect and honor all life.

Do you know how much the attitudes you are displaying in this thread disgust and appall the "liberal" Americans whose hearts you are trying to change?

Before they will listen to you, they must first be convinced that you really care about children. Born children.

I am telling you this because I want you to succeed, and I'm a fairly liberal person with fairly liberal friends. I'm telling you what it takes.

Lose the "let them eat cake" attitude.

I hope you know that many organizations that help children and orphans tend to be of christian nature. Not many secular organizations help.

How many "atheist missionarys" or liberals do you see going to africa on missionary work to feed and cloth the poor? The thousands of food shelfs the Churches put up and the temporary housing they give to the unsheltered? The hundreds of Catholic adoptions agencys(some of which were forced to close due to the gay agenda). RachelsVineyard. An organization to help women with child. The buildings pro-lifers are building next to abortion clinics to give women an alternative and help. I've seen and heard even pro-lifers themselves outside abortion clinics taking women in their own homes even.

So the "until you stand up and help children" rings false, considering we have been doing that for over 2000 years now.

I am telling you this because I want you to succeed, and I'm a fairly liberal person with fairly liberal friends. I'm telling you what it takes.

Liberals tend to be very vote happy when it comes to OKing abortion. Hence I don't think "liberal" and success go hand in hand.. "Success" according to a liberal would be the easiest most available abortion on demand possible without any repercussions. If you wanna read a true successful plan then read Humanae Vitae. If everyone understood that beautiful writing we would have no abortion to worry at all anymore

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p...ts/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

 

[JoabAnias]

Well I will agree that we need serious divorce reform and child support reform in the courts.

I know some who think they have and that was by making divorce no fault. Some states are better than others though.

Men and women can so easily manipulate their income if they are self employed.

Thats true but only if they can hide income and I am sure some disgruntlled spouses do just that. They can't hide gross usually on past tax returns and thats what its based off of. I have seen it go the other way to. I know self employed folks who had a large gross income but also a large overhead that ate up 80% of that gross income and were mandated by the court to actually pay more than they could afford.

I don't know about other states but in LA, it also goes by the needs of the child, not strictly on income.

Yea, I am sure there are differences between states. I've heard of one state that has more than one type of marriage to discourage divorce. One can choose to have a more restrictive marriage license where certain things which must happen before one can divorce like a one year waiting period in once instance I recall. I'd have to look up the particulars and what the program was called or even what state it was I heard about now but I recall I liked the idea to not make divorce so easy

For example, if you have 6 kids, you as the primary custodian of the kids need to provide proper housing for them, that is now taken into account. You need to be able to afford that housing. That responsibility should not fall on just one parent.

Thats a good point. I think it varies a bit by the state. I know some states that will encourage a parent to work at McD's if they have to and others who will help them better themselves with training and such so they can get a better income. I do know of one state that considers both parents incomes. Not sure about most. But from what I saw it basically had to do with who had to provide health insurance which usually falls to the custodial parent if they already have health insurance to start with. Its a tough situation usually for everyone involved.

Then there is the whole matter of alimony that in some places is just ludicrous. I have seen a woman divorce her husband for no good reason and get more in alimony than some moms get for child support in other places when both guys make about the same. The system is a mess really but seems to be improving bit by bit as far as the CSEA's go. Whats not improving is the divorce rate and I fail to see where making divorce so easy anyone can do it is helping that much but I wasn't around in the day that a divorce had to be justified with cause before it was granted so really have no frame of reference to compare with how it used to be. What I would like to see is the Church influence involved in Catholic divorces somehow other than after the fact.

 

[benedictaoo]

Alimony is what needs to be reformed as in brought back. If a women who has stayed home raising kids from age 18 and then the man decides he's walking out after 20-30 years of marriage, that women in her 40's with no education or skills is going to go and do what? If you have a couple that only has debt and no assents, what is she supposed to do, especially in light of she has to take half the debt.

The criteria on alimony is what's ludicrous. The husband does not have to prove he was a bad husband or at fault, but the wife has to prove she was a saint and she was not at fault.

and not to mention what the cost of divorce lawyers, there needs to be reform because to fight for alimony, you can't get a court appointed lawyer.

 

[AMDG]

What is this about Republican or Democrat talking points. This is a people issue--not political. It is more conservative vs liberal. Both sides want the best for the children/women (although admittedly there are some that don't seem to realize that.) IMO, that realization of that should probably be a "starting point".

 

[AMDG]

I wasn't around in the day that a divorce had to be justified with cause before it was granted

I was. And divorce was rare. Then came the "no-fault" divorces (so no one was "stigmatized" and the divorce rate took off--marriage, divorce, re-marriage, divorce, re-re-marriage, it was like serial adultery!)

But you know, it doesn't address the couples back then who divorced without alimony or child support--the couples who basically decided among themselves that the mother would take the child or children (and assume all responsibility) while the other would get off scot-free of any responsibility. And even today, it doesn't address the scum (sorry fathers) who refuse to pay court-ordered child support.

Seems to me that "parental responsibility" needs to be stressed, and not "do what you like 'cause big government will take care of needs."

As to Catholic divorces, the Church doesn't advocate divorce. That's up to the people who decide to follow secular society--that's civil.

 

[katholikos]

....Before they will listen to you, they must first be convinced that you really care about children. Born children.....

That is where you lost me. Children are children, born or not. Why must we show preference to one group over another.

Also, liberal policies are going to hurt this country, and when that happens everyone is hurt including the "born" children

 

[Davidnic]

The relative position to the womb does not make a child...a child is a child a human being...possessed of inestimable dignity at every stage of life. And life should be protected, respected and defended at all stages from conception to natural death.

 

[Veritas]

Have you read about the Harlem Children's Zone? IT's awesome...and while it pulls some grant money (open to whatever organisations apply and qualify), it is mostly funded with private monies. It's awesome....

Thanks Shannon for the info. I would a million times be more willing to contribute my money toward a private fund to provide children with healthcare than throw it at the gov. which only screws things up and costs so much more.

I'm really stating to think that these "poor stories" we read in news papers and hear about on the news, of kids not having enough food and the government having to take care of them, etc, is to subconsciouly get us to think they would be better off aborted.

I really think this is the connection, why librals want to throw money on these programs, so the public will feel aborting them would be better for us all, including the kids.

What a horrible thought. Can you imagine growing up thinking you'd have been better off aborted?

OBOB: The Catholic Republican forum.

You might try the American Politics fora of the Politics forum as it's totally lopsided in the liberal direction by about 10-1.

I missed that this thread was so long so I only saw the beginning, but I was posting in reference to the first good bunch of responses which seemed to be nothing but Republican talking points.

Everything I've stated comes from my heart and is not in any way a regurgitation of some organizations views. I don't need "talking points" to form my opinions; I can think quite well for myself, thank you very much.