Charles Darwin to receive apology from the Church of England for rejecting evolution

[Split Rock]

Don't let AVVET steer you wrong, Belk. Remember, the process from R&D to Marketing for thalidomide in the US worked exactly as it should, i.e. from R&D, it went to the FDA and got stopped cold by a scientist

AHhhhhh.. but that scientist is still tarnished by what the other bad scientists did, just as we are all tarnished by Piltdown Man and Pluto (the evil non-planet). Whereas, AVET's unaltering, infallible interpretation of scripture is never mistaken!

 

[Split Rock]

It doesn't matter what the definition of "perfect" is --- the point is --- would the manufacturer be to blame?

Sure... if he also manufactured the driver!

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps not. In any case, the debate is moot, since God didn't create a perfect universe but a very good one (and before you start your spiel about very good for God means perfect for humans, you'd better have a biblical source for that).

I've already backed that point up with Scripture --- since He declared everything He had made "very good" --- and later admits that Lucifer was "perfect".

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Notice in the Ezekiel passage how "wast perfect" later became imperfect?

God did not created anything imperfect in Genesis 1, and cannot be held responsible for the Fall or its byproducts.

 

[AV1611VET]

Its funny that AVVET would be going on about thalidomide... Its the best thing to help leprosy in the past 1978 years LINK

Good --- tell that to the ones born disfigured because their parents took it to alleviate discomfort during pregnancy.

 

[Veyrlian]

It doesn't matter what the definition of "perfect" is --- the point is --- would the manufacturer be to blame?

Let me reword the question, so it's a little easier to comprehend:

• If I built a good car, and put a good driver in it, and he wrecked it, would it be my fault?

If you also built the good driver than yes, it would be your fault. Also the driver you built can't be that good if he wrecked the car in the first place. Maybe you only built an average driver?

 

[Split Rock]

God did not created anything imperfect in Genesis 1, and cannot be held responsible for the Fall or its byproducts.

Did God create death? If not, then explain how The Fall created death.

Did God create Hell? If not, then explain how The Fall created Hell.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't let AVVET steer you wrong, Belk. Remember, the process from R&D to Marketing for thalidomide in the US worked exactly as it should, i.e. from R&D, it went to the FDA and got stopped cold by a scientist

Thanks for clarifying. In other words, U.S. scientists didn't fall for it --- and I'm thankful.

 

[Cabal]

I've already backed that point up with Scripture --- since He declared everything He had made "very good" --- and later admits that Lucifer was "perfect".Notice in the Ezekiel passage how "wast perfect" later became imperfect?

God did not created anything imperfect in Genesis 1, and cannot be held responsible for the Fall or its byproducts.

Very good means perfect now?

 

[AV1611VET]

I've heard killing birds also works wonders. I suspect that thalidomide already cured more lepers than died over the ages as a result of that procedure.

We've been over this Leviticus 14 "cure" before, haven't we?

 

[Cabal]

Thanks for clarifying. In other words, U.S. scientists didn't fall for it --- and I'm thankful.

So then at the bare minimum you should stop whaling on scientists on this board from your own country for it? (I also would point out that none of us had anything to with it anyway, ergo irrelevant point, just like repeatedly banging on about "The Crusades" doesn't invalidate all religion, but let's not go nuts here.)

 

[Skaloop]

Good --- tell that to the ones born disfigured because their parents took it to alleviate discomfort during pregnancy.

That wasn't thalidomide, that was God punishing the women for trying to skirt around his "painful childbirth" punishment.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I've already backed that point up with Scripture --- since He declared everything He had made "very good" --- and later admits that Lucifer was "perfect".Notice in the Ezekiel passage how "wast perfect" later became imperfect?

I notice that these two passages contradict themselves. Very good does not equal perfect.

God did not created anything imperfect in Genesis 1, and cannot be held responsible for the Fall or its byproducts.

Unless the Fall was some sort of spiritual deathtrap set up without God knowing, he can be indeed held responsible for everything it caused. Nobody forced him to create the tree of knowledge and certainly nobody forced him to curse Adam and Eve.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you also built the good driver than yes, it would be your fault. Also the driver you built can't be that good if he wrecked the car in the first place. Maybe you only built an average driver?

I've already covered both of those points in this thread --- but once again:

1. If he was ordered not to go down Interstate 5, and he does anyway, it's my fault?
2. He could have wrecked it because he was avoiding hitting someone on the highway.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I've already covered both of those points in this thread --- but once again:

1. If he was ordered not to go down Interstate 5, and he does anyway, it's my fault?

At least partly, given that you intentionally hid a land mine in the asphalt.

He could have wrecked it because he was avoiding hitting someone on the highway.

A perfect driver in a perfect car would swerve without crashing.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did God create death? If not, then explain how The Fall created death.

Did God create Hell? If not, then explain how The Fall created Hell.

Not in Genesis 1.

 

[AV1611VET]

I notice that these two passages contradict themselves. Very good does not equal perfect.


Unless the Fall was some sort of spiritual deathtrap set up without God knowing, he can be indeed held responsible for everything it caused. Nobody forced him to create the tree of knowledge and certainly nobody forced him to curse Adam and Eve.

And, once again, if I create a perfect car, and someone wrecks it, is it my fault?

 

[Veyrlian]

God did not created anything imperfect in Genesis 1, and cannot be held responsible for the Fall or its byproducts.

But if God created everything perfect why did they Fall? There must have been a manufacturing flaw somewhere. I'm guessing it was the Free Will -part.

 

[AV1611VET]

At least partly, given that you intentionally hid a land mine in the asphalt.

A perfect driver in a perfect car would swerve without crashing.

Unless you don't have anything else to add, I'll just "/thread" out.

I'll wait a few more posts though and see if anyone really has anything to say.

 

[AV1611VET]

But if God created everything perfect why did they Fall? There must have been a manufacturing flaw somewhere. I'm guessing it was the Free Will -part.

You are guessing correctly, and free will is not a manufacturing flaw. Now --- if God would have embedded Murphy's Law into His Creation, then you might have a point, but Murphy's Law isn't fueled by free will, and God didn't embed it into His creation.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

And, once again, if I create a perfect car, and someone wrecks it, is it my fault?

And once again, your analogy fails on every conceivable level. You created an imperfect car, you created an imperfect driver, you created a highway with a land mine hidden somewhere on it and you told the driver to watch for land mines even though you knew he had no idea what a land mine is.

So, basically, yes, it is your fault.