The Doctrine of "Universalism" (Christian Universalism or Otherwise) True or False? (2)

[Joykins]

Certainly not because we were born.
It IS through the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
FOR THOSE WHO CHOOSE HIM AS LORD.
Those that don't will find out that HE IS LORD,
but they will not have any benefit of His Lordship
there, if they reject Him here.

You tell me, what does the Word say?
How is one saved?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Compare this to Mat. 7:21-23
"not everyone that calls me Lord will
enter into the Kingdom".



(I'd also note, that some are raised to eternal life, and others to eternal judgment)

 

[Joykins]

Just as we cannot fathom Heaven, so we cannot fathom the depth of despair and anguish of hell. We make a big mistake, I believe, when we make comparisons to hell as some earthly place. Our "hell on earth" is NOTHING like what God has created for those who reject Him. It is too terrible to even try to imagine.

If God truly wants to save everyone, that should make Him very sad indeed.

 

[Floatingaxe]

If God truly wants to save everyone, that should make Him very sad indeed.

Do you question whether God wants to save all or not?

 

[IamRedeemed]

It does not matter that they were not offered salvation. What matters is the point
that Peter, an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, as inspired by the Holy Spirit of God
warns us that as God did not spare the angels, nor will he spare any man who is
NOT IN CHRIST. Nothing he can do outside of Christ will profit him for eternal life.

Jude confirms it as well as Jesus:
Jude 1:3-6
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


And Jesus said, " Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41)

Do you believe Jesus was either lying
or doesn't know what He is talking about?

And that we are wiser than He and know more
about what will happen than He does that we should just
ignore what He has said?

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Their judgment is not our judgment, they were never offered salvation.

 

[CaDan]

Wow! Three different authors pasted all together.

 

[IamRedeemed]

That's right, and who can do the will of the Father which is in Heaven
if they be dead outside of the vine, having not been quickened by the
Holy Spirit through repenting and believing on Christ who IS the vine?


The flesh is at war with the Spirit and does NOT the will of God.
One cannot enter UNLESS he is BORN AGAIN.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Joykins]

Do you question whether God wants to save all or not?

I believe God wants to save us all, yes. God so loved the world.

 

[IamRedeemed]

That's right. Read it and weep lol

Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses is
every word established.

Wow! Three different authors pasted all together.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Yes, God does want to, but not all will come, as Jesus has indicated and
confirmed. In fact not only are there many who won't come, according to
the Word of God, there are many who once did come, that will fall away
into apostasy and therefore unto perdition as well.

I believe God wants to save us all, yes. God so loved the world.

 

[Zecryphon]

Yes, God does want to, but not all will come, as Jesus has indicated and
confirmed. In fact not only are there many who won't come, according to
the Word of God, there are many who once did come, that will fall away
into apostasy and therefore unto perdition as well.

Yep, I've concluded that according to Universalism all will be saved, whether they want to be or not. According to the universalist, this is an act of love and mercy by God. Yet in any other situation this side of Heaven, replace God with any stranger off the street and it's considered kidnapping and being held against your will as a hostage. Now, are those the acts of a loving person or of a tyrant? I'm also going to unsubscribe from this thread. It's going to hit a third thread before nightfall and nothing will be settled.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I believe God wants to save us all, yes. God so loved the world.

Indeed. His heart is open toward us. But He is not able to save us all. Why? Because He has given us a will to reject Him. Yes, that saddens Him. It will give Him great sorrow to have to pour His wrath out on His creation, but He is bound by His own word.

 

[CaDan]

Yep, I've concluded that according to Universalism all will be saved, whether they want to be or not. According to the universalist, this is an act of love and mercy by God. Yet in any other situation this side of Heaven, replace God with any stranger off the street and it's considered kidnapping and being held against your will as a hostage. Now, are those the acts of a loving person or of a tyrant?

All are born whether they chose or not, too.

 

[Nadiine]

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Their judgment is not our judgment, they were never offered salvation.

I'd like to offer a statement, why aren't angels offered salvation?

They don't need FAITH - they SEE GOD & they are in His domain.
That's what I personally think.
It may also mean that once humans enter the afterlife and see God, that there's no turning to "faith" then either.

 

[CaDan]

Indeed. His heart is open toward us. But He is not able to save us all. Why? Because He has given us a will to reject Him. Yes, that saddens Him. It will give Him great sorrow to have to pour His wrath out on His creation, but He is bound by His own word.

Which brings us back to the Ninevah . . . .

 

[SpiritDriven]

A Formal Debate would be the best way to go here...it ties them to the word of God...and prevents personal opinion, and the traditions of men from covering the truth.....

 

[CaDan]

Is there any "under the Earth" when the Earth is roughly spherical?

 

[CaDan]

A Formal Debate would be the best way to go here...it ties them to the word of God...and prevents personal opinion, and the traditions of men from covering the truth.....

Working on it.

 

[Zecryphon]

All are born whether they chose or not, too.

Yes but after a certain age you make decision about where you want to go and what you want to do. Apparently, this decision is removed from people according to universalism and this is seen as a good thing. If you're a Satanist and wish to reign in Hell with Satan after you die, oh well. Too bad. If you're a Pagan who wants to live with the male and female in anothe realm, if you're a Buddhist who wants to attain enlightenment or a Hindu who wants to achieve Nirvana, too bad, cause God is gonna kidnap you and take you to Heaven so you can be with Him for all eternity. Doesn't matter what YOU want or that you have made it clear to God that you want nothing in the world to do with Him, He's going to take you to be with Him forever. That's not an act of love, it's kidnapping. No matter how you'd like to spin it.

 

[Zecryphon]

A Formal Debate would be the best way to go here...it ties them to the word of God...and prevents personal opinion, and the traditions of men from covering the truth.....

Oh put a sock in your "traditions of men" whining. You've posted links that take us to the teachings of men, not the word of God. So as much as you'd like to think you're solely relying on the word of God here, you're not.