The question the "Responsible Grace"...

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PreciousMessage

Guest
The writer has assumed [falsely] that Pharaoh was already "in the light" and by refusing to yeild to Moses demand, then began "turning to darkness"....such a notion is seriously flawed.
:)

Greetings,

You stated, "The writer has assumed [falsely] that Pharaoh was already "in the light" and by refusing to yield to Moses demand, then began "turning to darkness"....such a notion is seriously flawed."


If the writer is "flawed" then Christ Jesus himself was ....? The writer is simply spiritually discerning Christ's own words. Jesus said, "That was the true Light [Jesus] which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" (John 1:9).

Dear brother, if you demand a "yes" or "no" answer from others, certainly you do not deny the fact that Christ Jesus "lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

When you state this is a "seriously flawed" statement those are words to
bring into disrepute someone's statement. That is a politician's tactic, not sound Biblical doctrine. Please show me the truth of something, and let the Word speak for itself. The "debating style" is for the enemy of all righteousness. May God bring peace to OUR souls and die to self.

blessings to you in Christ,
John S.
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
I wonder why Exodus 4:21 is ignored? God specifically said that HE would harden Pharaoh's heart. Not Pharaoh, not Moses, God Himself would harden Pharaoh's heart. Yet we have a parade of people all claiming that such is not the case, that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, all by himself, blah, blah, blah....And then we are lectured by a newbie on how we must "rightly divide the word of Truth".

Arminianism and it's kissin' cousin, semi-Pelagianism, are running rampant in churches today. Itching ears and all....
 
Upvote 0
P

PreciousMessage

Guest
I wonder why Exodus 4:21 is ignored? God specifically said that HE would harden Pharaoh's heart. Not Pharaoh, not Moses, God Himself would harden Pharaoh's heart. Yet we have a parade of people all claiming that such is not the case, that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, all by himself, blah, blah, blah....And then we are lectured by a newbie on how we must "rightly divide the word of Truth".

Arminianism and it's kissin' cousin, semi-Pelagianism, are running rampant in churches today. Itching ears and all....

Greetings,

First of all dear brother, I have been a Christian for 30 years, I'm a "newbie" on this site, yet not a "newbie Christian." Discernment is needed by all, including me. We are nothing, He is everything. You are much loved by God.

In Ex. 8:15, the scripture states that "Pharaoh... hardened his heart." Did God harden Pharaoh's heart or did Pharaoh harden his own heart." Both are true, by God's loving mercy was Pharaoh's heart hardened. The Lord showed His mercy by stopping one plague after another, but Pharaoh would not accept God's loving mercy.

Concerning Arminianism. Not everyone has to be labeled as Calvinism or Arminiianism. Categorizing people is not sound discernment. This is what I think of Calvinism and Arminianism.


To my limited knowledge, Calvinism, no matter how it is stated, is that Christ did not intend to die for "all people. In fact, some of its prominent spokesman have said Jesus didn't even love "all people." He loved and died for only a special group known as "the elect."

The idea is that God has predestined some people to be saved; and because that His "soverign will," not even they can thwart what He has purposed to do. The predestined ones go to heaven whether they want to or not, why, because, after all, they have no "free will."

They understand the Lord's Prayer to say, "Thy will must and will be done in earth as it is in heaven." If you are one of the lucky ones, you'll be saved. Too bad for the others. ... I reject "once saved always saved."

I reject Calvinism. .... also Universalism.

Arminianism, a highly respected Protestant doctrine.

This belief says that the "all men" Paul speaks of in Romans 5 are only those who believe and obey. John Wesley tells of people who were so discouraged thinking they were predestined to be lost that they gave up hope, and others, thinking they were "the elect," wanted to sin ad infinitum and still be saved.

Arminianism also believes that everybody can be saved. And Christ died in order to make a provision so that everyone could be saved, but what He accomplished was only provisional. A big "if."

Arminianim says that our receiving what Christ offers us is what makes it become a "gift." Can this be true? He has done nothing more than make us an offer, a kind intention, and we then go away with no sense of real gratitude for a gift given. This may have something to do of the lukewarmness of the church in general, no sense of real gratitude.

Arminianism may have been a brave reponse To Calvinism, but comes short of the full sunlit truth that the apostles preached. God GAVE His Son, not merely offered to do so; Christ died for us, not just offered to. He actually shed His blood "once for all" to redeem us, not merely offered to; He doesn't have to shed it again constantly in the Roman Catholic mass.

If we accept this Arminian position then we can enter heaven and say, "Thanks Jesus for Your good offer; but You didn't accomplish anything for us until we did the right thing first to make it effective. We did our part, that's why we're here." This would turn out to be salvation by faith plus by works trip.

I reject Arminianism.

The Bible does make it clear that the lost will at last fully realize that Christ gave them the gift of justification and salvation "in Him," but they threw it away.

The problem boils down to one simple question: did Christ actually pay the debt for every human sin? YES! This is not a much to do about nothing issue.

The answer gives the key to reaching the Muslim Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish mind. Ye, all those people in "Babylon" whom the Lord calls, "My People." (Rev. 18:4).

It is the love (agape) of Christ constraineth us. When He said that "One died for all," he simply reasoned that it had to mean that "all died," so that "those who live" cannot in peace of conscience go on living for themselves. 2 Cor. 5:14, 15. By the way, You stated, "blah, blah, blah." Is that your character witness dear child of God? What does that mean in the tenderheartedness and kindness of the love of God? "Be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted ... forgiving one another."

John



 
Upvote 0

A Brother In Christ

Senior Veteran
Mar 30, 2005
5,528
53
Royal city, washington
✟5,985.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So be it. What I shared was ample enough. Yet, here are a couple of more reasons.

God does not create men to destroy but to save them. " ... who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Each soul in the world can say, "He loved me and gave Himself for me." The whole gift of Christ is for each individual.

One scripture does not negate another. Christ has by grace tasted death for every man, so that every man in the world has received the "inexpressible gift."

"For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to ALL MEN." Titus 2:11.

We cannot take one scripture in principle and make a whole doctrine of it. That's why line upon line is required. Let us not fail to make the standard higher then our thoughts, but let take the word of God and rightly divide it. May God bring you peace to your soul.

blessings in Christ,
John

yet we have John 3:19 that all men perfer darkness over light and in john 1:4-5 the light is defined as Jesus

do I need to connect the dots...
 
Upvote 0
P

PreciousMessage

Guest
yet we have John 3:19 that all men perfer darkness over light and in john 1:4-5 the light is defined as Jesus

do I need to connect the dots...

All truth is one, and the scripture is in perfect harmony. He does lighteth every man that comes into the world. Even you dear brother, by nature, prefer darkness over light. There is nothing good in you, all have gone astray, by nature we are the children of wrath. Not one seeks after God. No one understands.

By nature we all have very combative, antagonistic and condensending spirits. May they be "softened" by God's love. You need not "connect the dots." blessings to you.

John S.
 
Upvote 0

Oye11

Veteran
May 25, 2006
1,955
188
Florida
✟17,913.00
Faith
Methodist
Politics
US-Democrat
I wonder why Exodus 4:21 is ignored? God specifically said that HE would harden Pharaoh's heart. Not Pharaoh, not Moses, God Himself would harden Pharaoh's heart. Yet we have a parade of people all claiming that such is not the case, that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, all by himself, blah, blah, blah....And then we are lectured by a newbie on how we must "rightly divide the word of Truth".

Arminianism and it's kissin' cousin, semi-Pelagianism, are running rampant in churches today. Itching ears and all....

Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....;) Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.
 
Upvote 0
P

PreciousMessage

Guest
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....;) Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.

Dear Brother,

You attack, attack, and attack without scripture. Please show me the scripture in your presentation. You talk much opinion, but no scripture. Let me ask you, does Christ "give himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Tim. 2:5). Yea or Nay.

God bless you in Christ,
John
 
Upvote 0
P

PreciousMessage

Guest
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....;) Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.

"but most just aren`t sold on your claims." You are correct, the majority of people are not the basis of sound doctrine. The Bible give us that distinction, alone. You are correct, you're in the majority, unwillingly by many. Perhaps the majority were on the ark also.

blessings to you in Christ,
John

I do not believe Arminianism is correct, perhaps you did not read my article, it may be an oversight on your part little child. I'm hoping you'll bless me too sometime as the Bible calls for it. It's just a "love thing." God loves you, loves you, loves you dear little child of God.

John S.
 
Upvote 0

Oye11

Veteran
May 25, 2006
1,955
188
Florida
✟17,913.00
Faith
Methodist
Politics
US-Democrat
You talk much opinion, but no scripture. Let me ask you, does Christ "give himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Tim. 2:5). Yea or Nay.

It`s all here in the forum, the Calvinist verses, Ariminian verses, on and on going back years. Why should I waste an hour this afternoon doing it again? But anyone up for a real challenge, go down to the "General Apologetics" forum and defend the very premise, God and the infallibility of the bible. Now that`s some work, are few believers down there.....;)
 
Upvote 0
P

PreciousMessage

Guest
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assumingfrom my readings that Christ died for all.

God bless you brother,

" ... that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man." Heb. 2:9.

As "Lamb of God" Christ takes away the sin of the world, not only of those who repent. His work accomplished applies to all people in the world. John 1:29.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom. 6:23

Christ is already "the Saviour of the world." John 3:42.

The "you" to whom comes "good tidings of great joy" is "all people," for unto them "is born ... a Saviour, ... Christ the Lord." Luke 2:9, 10.

The same group (the many," that is, all men) who are mortal receive two blessings: (a) "the grace of God," and (be) a "gift by grace" which abounds to the same the many" (all). Rom. 5:15.

That "gift" is justification, not justification by faith, which reverses the "condemnation" they received "in Adam." Rom. 5:16.

This present "justification of life" is given to "all men" "even" as Adam gave them "condemnation." Rom. 5:18.

Thus, when Christ died, in a certain real sense "all" of us "died." 2 Cor. 5:14.

In an object sense, "the world" was "reconciled" to God in Christ." 2 Cor. 5:18, 19.

God could not "impute" the world's trespasses unto themselves, else they wold have died the second death immediately--before they could repent. (Revelation, chapter 20). 2 Cor. 5:18, 19.

Our Saviour is aldo "the Saviour of all men," referring to the objective atonement. "Especially of those that believe" refers to the subjective atonement, that is, the atonement received by faith. 1 Tim. 4:10.

The Bible supports the exaltation of the cross of Christ as "the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world," not merely for those of the "saints." This is in support of the bible.

blessings to you in Christ,
John S.




 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

A Brother In Christ

Senior Veteran
Mar 30, 2005
5,528
53
Royal city, washington
✟5,985.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
All truth is one, and the scripture is in perfect harmony. He does lighteth every man that comes into the world. Even you dear brother, by nature, prefer darkness over light. There is nothing good in you, all have gone astray, by nature we are the children of wrath. Not one seeks after God. No one understands.

By nature we all have very combative, antagonistic and condensending spirits. May they be "softened" by God's love. You need not "connect the dots." blessings to you.

John S.

2 cor 4:3-6 please read this verese and combine this with john 3:19.....
 
Upvote 0

cygnusx1

Jacob the twister.....
Apr 12, 2004
56,208
3,104
UK Northampton
Visit site
✟79,726.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
It`s all here in the forum, the Calvinist verses, Ariminian verses, on and on going back years. Why should I waste an hour this afternoon doing it again? But anyone up for a real challenge, go down to the "General Apologetics" forum and defend the very premise, God and the infallibility of the bible. Now that`s some work, are few believers down there.....;)

i have several times called for this , i recall hardly anyone was interested , not interested in the lost !!! :scratch: :eek: :(
 
Upvote 0

Oye11

Veteran
May 25, 2006
1,955
188
Florida
✟17,913.00
Faith
Methodist
Politics
US-Democrat
i have several times called for this , i recall hardly anyone was interested , not interested in the lost !!! :scratch: :eek: :(

It`s not for the faint of heart Bro, but probably worth it if equipped. Are some wanna be atheists down there that can be impressed when a theist can trade blows with their heros...
 
Upvote 0

cygnusx1

Jacob the twister.....
Apr 12, 2004
56,208
3,104
UK Northampton
Visit site
✟79,726.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
It`s not for the faint of heart Bro, but probably worth it if equipped. Are some wanna be atheists down there that can be impressed when a theist can trade blows with their heros...

i spent a year down there , only one person "came through" , his name is Avatar.
 
Upvote 0

moonbeam

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
1,546
61
✟33,604.00
Faith
Calvinist
A short article regarding the Hardening of Pharaoh’s Heart, by a preacher of righteousness:


“WHEN the Lord sent Moses to demand the release of the children of Israel, he said, “I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand,” “but by a strong hand;” and again, “I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.” Ex. 3:19; 4:21.

This is by many supposed to show that Pharaoh could not help himself, but that he was obliged to exhibit stubbornness, and to refuse to allow Israel to go forth. As a consequence, they doubt the justice and mercy of God. They think that God purposely made Pharaoh just what he was, in order that he might make an exhibition of him.
If that were true, it would be an exhibition of God’s denial of himself; for justice and judgment are the habitation of his throne; mercy and truth go before his face. Ps. 89:14. He is love. 1 John 4:8. “He doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.” Lam. 3:33. He is longsuffering, “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9.

God says that he raised up Pharaoh in order to show in him his power, and that his name might be declared throughout all the earth. Is it not strange that people should from this at once jump to the conclusion that God raised up Pharaoh on purpose to cast him down? Is that the only way that God has of showing his power and making his name known?—Most assuredly not. His power is shown in his salvation; and his wondrous works declare his excellent name. See Psalms 8. To conclude that God willfully hardens men’s hearts and makes it impossible for them to do right, in order that he may torment them, argues very little, if any, acquaintance with God.

Let us note a few points in the narrative of God’s dealings with Pharaoh, which will indicate how Pharaoh’s heart was hardened. When Moses and Aaron first appeared to Pharaoh, certain miracles were performed. These were counterfeited by the magicians, so that the king, who loved a lie better than the truth, refused to believe the divine message, although evidence was given that the power with Moses was superior to that with the magicians. This was repeated several times.

The magicians, however, could not remove the plagues that they brought in imitation of those brought by the Lord, and so when the plague of frogs became intolerable, Pharaoh appealed to the servants of God, saying, “Entreat the Lord, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto the Lord.” Ex. 8:8. It will be seen that Pharaoh had learned who the Lord is. According to his request, Moses cried unto the Lord, “and the frogs died out of the houses, out of the villages, and out of the fields.” “But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.” Verse 15.
Again, swarms of flies plagued the people, and Pharaoh again relented. “And Moses went out from Pharaoh, and intreated the Lord. And the Lord did according to the word of Moses; and he removed the swarms of flies from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people; there remained not one. And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.” Ex. 8:30-32.

Other plagues were sent, all the details of which are not given, and Pharaoh still refused to keep his word. Then the terrible hail came, mingled with fire, so that the crops and flocks were destroyed. “Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail. And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. Intreat the Lord (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer.” Ex. 9:26-28.

Here was a confession of sin and an acknowledgment of the Lord and his righteousness. The result showed that Pharaoh’s sorrow was not a godly sorrow, but only the sorrow of the world, produced by fear; nevertheless God took him at his word. This is an evidence of the kindness of the Lord, and of his unwillingness that any should perish. Although he can read the heart, and knew Pharaoh’s insincerity, and that he would not hold fast to his confession and promise, that made no difference. God acted as though Pharaoh’s repentance was sincere, so that he could have no excuse.

“And Moses went out of the city from Pharaoh, and spread abroad his hands unto the Lord; and the thunders and hail ceased, and the rain was not poured upon the earth. And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the Lord had spoken by Moses.” Ex. 9:33-35.

Thus we see that it was the mercy of the Lord that hardened Pharaoh’s heart. When the judgments of God came, he repented; but as soon as favor was shown him, he became stubborn again. Thus he mocked the Lord and despised his mercy. Where can the Lord be blamed in this affair? If a man will not be moved either by judgments or by favors, what can be done for him? He despises the goodness and forbearance and longsuffering of God, and after his hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto himself wrath. He brings his own destruction upon himself, and God is clear.

The mercy of the Lord endureth forever. Even in the punishment of the wicked, God does not forget mercy. The sun that melts the wax, hardens the clay. The same glory that transforms those who yield themselves to God, consumes those who are contentious and do not obey the truth. And so the dealing of God with Pharaoh is cited by the apostle, in the ninth of Romans, as an evidence of the mercy and longsuffering of God.” End Article

The entire treatise is flawed by a misunderstanding of Ex 3:19; The writer has assumed that were the LORD says "And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go" the LORD is speaking of the foreknowledge He has of Pharaohs actions...not so...the LORD merely states a know fact of His still emerging plan to Moses to liberate the Jews. The reason that the LORD can be "sure" is revealed explicitly later in Ex 4:21 where the LORD says "but I will harden his heart"

Question for you...Did God speak these words as recorded in scripture "I will harden his heart, so that he will" (Ex 4:21) Yes or No ?


:)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

cygnusx1

Jacob the twister.....
Apr 12, 2004
56,208
3,104
UK Northampton
Visit site
✟79,726.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Yea there are always a few good believers working the field there. Are a few sharp atheists regulars as well that are congenial, but be ready to spar...

the saddest thing for me was seeing Christians fighting over Avatar , yes fighting to get this one "convert" into their denomination , unbelievable !! :sick: :(

he is from a RC background and felt more at home with some liberals , is that a conversion ? only God knows ............:D
 
Upvote 0

moonbeam

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
1,546
61
✟33,604.00
Faith
Calvinist
Greetings,

You stated, "The writer has assumed [falsely] that Pharaoh was already "in the light" and by refusing to yield to Moses demand, then began "turning to darkness"....such a notion is seriously flawed."

If the writer is "flawed" then Christ Jesus himself was ....? The writer is simply spiritually discerning Christ's own words. Jesus said, "That was the true Light [Jesus] which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" (John 1:9).

Dear brother, if you demand a "yes" or "no" answer from others, certainly you do not deny the fact that Christ Jesus "lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

When you state this is a "seriously flawed" statement those are words to bring into disrepute someone's statement. That is a politician's tactic, not sound Biblical doctrine. Please show me the truth of something, and let the Word speak for itself. The "debating style" is for the enemy of all righteousness. May God bring peace to OUR souls and die to self.

blessings to you in Christ,
John S.
I thought the whole idea was for the Lord to bring us from darkness...into the Light.

Or do you think we were already in the Light...and Jesus Christ just brings us into "brighter Light" ??

:)
 
Upvote 0

moonbeam

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
1,546
61
✟33,604.00
Faith
Calvinist
Wow. I remember when I first heard the word "Ariminian".... I had been reading the bible on my own for years, just assuming from my readings that Christ died for all. Eventually I decided to do some seeking for a Church and put a meeting with a Presbyterian minister on the list. He was a young guy, just out of seminary, and he went on and on all afternoon, the Arminians this, the Arminians that. Guy was obsessed. I had no clue who he was talking about but he was buying lunch so I just went along with it....;) Guy was really worked up, bitter, and his rather large Church building was about empty. But in any case, you are making the TULIP claims based on scripture and it`s your job to prove the points. You have failed with the overwhelming majority of Christendom. There are prooftexts for the TULIP within an elaborate, very intellectual system but those that aren`t buying find other verses. You just haven`t sold us on these points, though some dissenters accept some of them and believe about everything else you believe. Call us what you want to, allege heresy, other slander like "self centeredness," etc. but most just aren`t sold on your claims. Get over it and start working for the kingdom.
Question for you.

Did God speak these words as recorded in scripture "I will harden his heart, so that he will" (Ex 4:21) Yes or No ?

:)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Oye11

Veteran
May 25, 2006
1,955
188
Florida
✟17,913.00
Faith
Methodist
Politics
US-Democrat
Question for you.

Did God speak these words as recorded in scripture "I will harden his heart, so that he will" (Ex 4:21) Yes or No ?

:)

I`ll make you a deal. Put in a week down in "General Apologetics" and I`ll answer that question and on your terms. I`ll check to see if you put in the labor....;)
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.