God-ordained Genocide

[Grip Docility]

I was responding to the Thread's Title.

"As someone is slandering the Father of Jesus as committing Genocide."

Fellow Berserker... Greetings.

 

[Aviel]

Fellow Berserker... Greetings.

It would be interesting to find out, if ... when a person is slandering God, and this is a Christian.....

Would a Calvinist teach that as "they were pre-destined to do it (By God) before they were born"...

 

[Hammster]

We Arminians are actually in agreement with our reformed brethren. We believe God can Sovereignly do as He wills. We just don't think He exercises irreversible Sovereignty all the time.

The thread is less about sovereignty and more about what some call omnibenevolence.

 

[Hammster]

I was responding to the Thread's Title.

As someone is slandering the Father of Jesus as committing Genocide.

Someone has misinterpreted God's Judgment, and His Right to judge HIS CREATION, according to HIS Holiness and how they offended HIM.

Its good that God gives us an opportunity to say whatever we want, as long as we remember that He is aware of every word we say, for Him, or against Him.

"count the cost", and "do as tho wilt".

See, the cost of Freedom, or Free Will is "consequences".

So, everyone who is on a Public "christian" Forum... who is willing to face those..... should say whatever their opinion leads them to state.

Dont you agree ?

How about addressing the OP.

 

[Grip Docility]

I’m not understanding your point.

Allow me to answer for you.... Jesus' specified that His Kingdom was not here. This is a notation of AUTHORITY. Who is the god of this age that blinds people to salvation? Satan

 

[Hammster]

Allow me to answer for you.... Satan. Jesus' specified that His Kingdom was not here. This is a notation of AUTHORITY. Who is the god of this age that blinds people to salvation?

He said it was not of this world. He did say that He has all authority.

 

[Grip Docility]

He said it was not of this world. He did say that He has all authority.

He had authority over the Angels... IN HEAVEN. Satan had full DOMINION over the earth, when Jesus came. Why do you think Satan asked Jesus to bow before him and he would give All Kingdoms of the Earth to Jesus? It's the exact same reason he asked Jesus to turn the Stones into Bread. Satan, at that moment, was the agent of Death, associated with the Stone Covenant. "MINISTRY OF DEATH"... Who had that Power? Heb. 2:14

Jesus CRUSHED Satan on the Cross. (heal strike, head crush Eden Reference)

 

[Aviel]

On topic, please.

God's love is not prohibited by God's Judgment.

That God wrapped Himself in Human Flesh, born of a Virgin, and gave His Blood and Body to SINNERS, does not suggest that God is not Righteous when He judges sinners for their Sin.

Hell, the existence of it, proves that .. John 3:36 is not a myth.

And the offer of Heaven to all of those are are currently damned by that verse.... reflects the Mercy of God, and the Heart of God.

Jesus Said.."when you've seen me, you've seen the Father".

Jesus is the Heart of God.

And Jesus who looking down from the Cross into the hate filled eyes of those who were laughing at His nails....... told them... "Father forgive them"..

So, this is the same Jesus who created a WHIP and drove these same Religious fanatics, out of His Father's Temple, and He told them.. "you are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL"..

And the are, and they were, and Jesus still said....."Father forgive THEM">

So, in all this we see, Righteous Indignation as a response to those who abuse and reject God and His Son, and we see also the mercy of God, and God's love for them.

 

[Grip Docility]

He said it was not of this world. He did say that He has all authority.

I'm signing off for the night, but thank you for allowing open dialogue. I Love you, Hammster... in the Name of our Lord and Savior. As always, you really know how to generate solid discussion. Respect.

 

[Hammster]

He had authority over the Angels

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
— Matthew 28:18

 

[Hammster]

God's love is not prohibited by God's Judgment.

That God wrapped Himself in Human Flesh, born of a Virgin, and gave His Blood and Body to SINNERS, does not suggest that God is not Righteous when He judges sinners for their Sin.

Hell, the existence of it, proves that .. John 3:36 is not a myth.

And the offer of Heaven to all of those are are currently damned by that verse.... reflects the Mercy of God, and the Heart of God.

Jesus Said.."when you've seen me, you've seen the Father".

Jesus is the Heart of God.

And Jesus who looking down from the Cross into the hate filled eyes of those who were laughing at His nails....... told them... "Father forgive them"..

So, this is the same Jesus who created a WHIP and drove these same Religious fanatics, out of His Father's Temple, and He told them.. "you are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL"..

And the are, and they were, and Jesus still said....."Father forgive THEM">

So, in all this we see, Righteous Indignation as a response to those who abuse and reject God and His Son, and we see also the mercy of God, and God's love for them.

I have zero idea how this relates to the OP.

 

[Grip Docility]

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
— Matthew 28:18

You got me! I acknowledge my error, (sort of) though I actually addressed this earlier... yeah, I logged back in, so what. I'll find it and repost it.

"Per the Decalogue, the Woman should have been stoned. Jesus, the ONLY PERFECT BEING THERE, shows MERCY. What changed? Jesus was now Boots on Ground, and didn't have to abide by Satan's usurped Agency. But... that would mean God can Humble Himself to Grant Autonomy to Creation! Which we see here:"

In other words... Jesus is by choice, per the scripture that I posted, within the spoiler, in my quote below, from my earlier post, which I quoted above... Humbled Himself willingly, a little lower than the Angles. Satan is an Angel, so we see Jesus, as always, abiding within the "Authority" of Satan's usurped Sovereignty, over the earth. And... spoiler alert, Satan isn't going to have it, much longer.

Look at this scripture and the one in the second spoiler within the quoted post... This Matthew 4 quote expresses what I am saying, because, here we see Satan challenging Jesus to evoke His Authority "Selfishly".
Matthew 4:5 Then the Devil took Him to the holy city,[b] had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
He will give His angels orders concerning you,
and they will support you with their hands
so that you will not strike
your foot against a stone.”[c]
7 Jesus told him, “It is also written: Do not test the Lord your God.”[d]

Spoiler

Correction: In your opinion, it isn't true.

God NEVER intended Death to enter his Creation. Elsewise, the entire Don't partake in My Knowledge of Good and Evil Command, wouldn't have been Given. Satan rebelled. He was "Cursed" with the power of Death (Heb 2:14). He usurped DOMINION (Sovereignty)

Look at the difference between the "Ministry of Death .. (symbolized by the Decalogue) ... and the ministry of Life (JESUS).

Per the Decalogue, the Woman should have been stoned. Jesus, the ONLY PERFECT BEING THERE, shows MERCY. What changed? Jesus was now Boots on Ground, and didn't have to abide by Satan's usurped Agency. But... that would mean God can Humble Himself to Grant Autonomy to Creation! Which we see here:

Spoiler

Hebrews 2:6 What is man that You remember him,​

or the son of man that You care for him?​

7 You made him lower than the angels​

for a short time;​

You crowned him with glory and honor[a]​

8 and subjected everything under his feet​

​

Philippians 2:5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,​

6 who, existing in the form of God,​

did not consider equality with God​

as something to be used for His own advantage.[a]​

7 Instead He emptied Himself​

by assuming the form of a slave,​

taking on the likeness of men.​

And when He had come as a man​

in His external form,​

8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient​

to the point of death—​

even to death on a cross.​

​

 

[Halbhh]

So how do my Arminian/synergism-leaning friends reconcile the multiple examples of God-ordained genocide in the OT with your view of God loving everyone and wanting them all saved?

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water...

6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
---------

Commentaries:

Ellicott's Commentary: 1 Peter 3 Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

Pulpit Commentary: 1 Peter 3 Pulpit Commentary

One can read the commentaries on verse 18, 19....and verse 4:6...

 

[Hammster]

You got me! I acknowledge my error, (sort of) though I actually addressed this earlier... yeah, I logged back in, so what. I'll find it and repost it.



In other words... Jesus is by choice, per the scripture that I posted, within the spoiler, in my quote below, from my earlier post, which I quoted above... Humbled Himself willingly, a little lower than the Angles. Satan is an Angel, so we see Jesus, as always, abiding within the "Authority" of Satan's usurped Sovereignty, over the earth. And... spoiler alert, Satan isn't going to have it, much longer.

Look at this scripture and the one in the second spoiler within the quoted post... This Matthew 4 quote expresses what I am saying, because, here we see Satan challenging Jesus to evoke His Authority "Selfishly".
Matthew 4:5 Then the Devil took Him to the holy city,[b] had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
He will give His angels orders concerning you,
and they will support you with their hands
so that you will not strike
your foot against a stone.”[c]
7 Jesus told him, “It is also written: Do not test the Lord your God.”[d]

That was pre-cross. Oh, and Satan is a liar. The Father never gave up His kingship until He gave it to His Son.

 

[Hammster]

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water...

6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
---------

Commentaries:

Ellicott's Commentary: 1 Peter 3 Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

Pulpit Commentary: 1 Peter 3 Pulpit Commentary

One can read the commentaries on verse 18, 19....and verse 4:6...

How does this address the question I asked?

 

[Grip Docility]

That was pre-cross. Oh, and Satan is a liar. The Father never gave up His kingship until He gave it to His Son.

The fact that God Gave Sovereignty to Adam and Eve, then Satan Usurped it, doesn't "NEGATE" that God has ALL AUTHORITY. It Demonstrates that God gave His Creations (Autonomous Self Sovereignty)... and God acts accordingly to how that plays out. This is exactly what we see in scripture, in my opinion. Satan's does Lie. I agree... but note in Job 1 and 2 how Satan "Abuses his Agency"... and by Job 2 is called on it. God isn't doing the Evil to Job. Satan is. God knows Satan is Lying. Job isn't being TESTED. God KNOWS JOB's HEART. God is Testing Satan, in Job.

Further more, God knows that Satan had seen Job and had his mind on him. The conversation reveals this. If we BELIEVE that God is Good, we can then say that God is merely naming what is on Satan's heart, to Satan. "Have you seen my servant Job"? This is exactly like when God is "looking" for Adam and Eve.

Also, thank you for challenging me. It is a blessing and is good for my usage of scripture!

 

[Hammster]

The fact that God Gave Sovereignty to Adam and Eve, then Satan Usurped it, doesn't "NEGATE" that God has ALL AUTHORITY. It Demonstrates that God gave His Creations (Autonomous Self Sovereignty)... and God acts accordingly to how that plays out. This is exactly what we see in scripture, in my opinion. Satan's does Lie. I agree... but note in Job 1 and 2 how Satan "Abuses his Agency"... and by Job 2 is called on it. God isn't doing the Evil to Job. Satan is. God knows Satan is Lying. Job isn't being TESTED. God KNOWS JOB's HEART. God is Testing Satan, in Job.

Further more, God know that Satan had seen Job and had his mind on him. The conversation reveals this. If we BELIEVE that God is Good, we can then say that God is merely naming what is on Satan's heart, to Satan. "Have you seen my servant Job"? This is exactly like when God is "looking" for Adam and Eve.

Also, thank you for challenging me. It is a blessing and is good for my usage of scripture!

He gave them dominion to perform certain tasks. If He’d given them sovereignty, there’d be no sin in the world.

 

[Grip Docility]

He gave them dominion to perform certain tasks. If He’d given them sovereignty, there’d be no sin in the world.

No word games... DOMINION 1. sovereignty or control......

Okay, to the Hebrew,

In Daniel is the word for Dominion is the NOUN Sholtan (A Sultan), while in Genesis the word for Dominion is the Active VERB Radah (A Raja) to give Sultan (The Noun) ), BUT, Raja is a Verb, in this case which would indicates that (Sultan), was given, via the active Hebrew Verb (Raja.)​

​

To respect ALL scripture... The passage indicates that Y-WH Barak (Blessed) them actively "Raja verb" which would then imply the Masculine Noun Sultin has been given as a gift to Adam and Eve. This matches the Biblical account that the First Adam was incapable of restoring Dominion. This then goes forward to show that Christ (The Second Adam) Could and Did Restore Sultan to God.​

Daniel 7:14 (This word is Sholtan) Noun

Daniel 7:14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign (Dominion is the render of Sovereign in the Hebrew interlinear, because it is again Sultan) power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion (Sultan) is an everlasting.​

Genesis 1:28 (This word is Radah) Verb​

Genesis 1:28 says They were given Dominion over EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH. THEY LIVED ON EARTH.​

​

Daniel 7:14 Hebrew word for Dominion​

Genesis 1:28​

sholtan: dominion Original Word: שָׁלְטָן Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: sholtan Phonetic Spelling: (shol-tawn') Definition: dominion​ ​

radah: reign Original Word: רָדָה Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: radah Phonetic Spelling: (raw-daw') Definition: to have dominion, rule, dominate​

 

[Grip Docility]

... this post was used as a chalk board of sorts when going through the Hebrew.

 

[Hammster]

No word games... DOMINION 1. sovereignty or control......

Genesis 1:28 says They were given Dominion over EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH. THEY LIVED ON EARTH.

Daniel 7:14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign (Dominion is the render of Sovereign in the Hebrew interlinear, because it is again Sultan)) power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion (Sultan) is an everlasting..

Okay, to the Hebrew!

They are different Hebrew words. (Studying) Okay... This is Easy... Daniel is Sholtan (A Sultan), while Genesis is Radah (A Raja), BUT, Raja is a Verb, in this case which would indicate that Sultan, was given, via the active Hebrew Verb Raja.)​

​

To respect ALL scripture... The passage indicates that Y-WH Barak (Blessed) them actively "Raja verb" which would then imply the Masculine Noun Sultin has been given as a gift to Adam and Eve. This matches the Biblical account that the First Adam was incapable of restoring Dominion. This then goes forward to show that Christ (The Second Adam) Could and Did Restore Sultan to God.​

​

Daniel 7:14 (This word is Sholtan) Noun​

Genesis 1:28 (This word is Radah) Verb​

​

​

Daniel 7:14 Hebrew word for Dominion​

Genesis 1:28​

sholtan: dominion Original Word: שָׁלְטָן Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: sholtan Phonetic Spelling: (shol-tawn') Definition: dominion​ ​

radah: reign Original Word: רָדָה Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: radah Phonetic Spelling: (raw-daw') Definition: to have dominion, rule, dominate​

I’m not going to try to deal with your weird post formatting. My point is that their dominion was limited. It was never autonomous. And I have no idea what this has to do with the OP.