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Amen, sister! Sukkot is a more likely time of his tabernacling on Earth, than the winter solstice celebration of Saturnalia,I think we should let the Happy Holidays people have the 25th of December - and we should celebrate the birth of Jesus in conjunction with the Feast of Tabernacles.Two separate holidays. And if we don't get our holiday off from work, we should just celebrate at whatever time of day we can, even if it is a midnight worhip service and love feast afterward. The more I think about it, the more I like it.
Amen, sister! Sukkot is a more likely time of his tabernacling on Earth, than the winter solstice celebration of Saturnalia,
Thank you for the information. However, Christmas is a Catholic tradition, not Protestant. Are you saying the Lutherans observe it as that Catholics do, with the exception of the Mass for Christ (Christ-Mass)?Saturnalia lasted from Dec. 17th to the 23rd. In antiquity the solstice was December 25th. Saturnalia literally had nothing to do with the solstice. What did happen on the solstice, starting in the 3rd century, was the celebration of the Dies Natalis Solus Invicti, or the Birth Day of the Unconquered Sun. The cult of Sol Invictus was a syncretic solar cult that attempted to bring all the various solar cults that had become popular--especially after the introduction of Elagabal worship by the emperor Marus Aurelius Antonius (aka Elagabalus) to Rome--in both the preceding century and that one.
The actual calendar date for Christ's birth has never been what Christmas is about. Christmas is not Jesus "birthday". Christmas is the liturgical celebration of Christ's birth, there's a major difference. For the same reason that we don't celebrate Epiphany (Theophany) on January 6th because we believe January 6th was the calendar date of Christ's baptism by John in the River Jordan, it's the liturgical celebration of Christ's baptism and helps bring in the Church Year. Lent is not about the calendar anniversary of Christ's fast in the wilderness, but it is what Lent remembers.
The Church Year is Christocentric, and it is centered chiefly on one very important holy day; Pascha, or "Easter". Everything else on the Christian calendar effectively rotates around the Paschal Feast, and gives us a liturgical and worshipful sense of time as we journey every year through the Church Year leading up to Pascha and then afterward away. On the Western Calendar the Year begins and ends with Advent: Advent both remembers the hopeful expectation and anticipation for the coming of the Messiah as well as our present hopeful expectation and anticipation for His Parousia. So it leads us through the hopeful anticipation of the ancient Prophets of the Messiah's coming, to His birth, His baptism, His wandering, His sufferings, death, and finally resurrection. It then takes us through His Ascension and Pentecost and brings us to our here and now as we find ourselves in the story of Christ and His Church following Pentecost and--again--back to Advent as we look forward to the day when He comes "to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end." When God will make all things new, and all is set right in and for the world.
-CryptoLutheran
Thank you for the information. However, Christmas is a Catholic tradition, not Protestant. Are you saying the Lutherans observe it as that Catholics do, with the exception of the Mass for Christ (Christ-Mass)?
We do so these days because we are commemorating the magi bringing gifts for the newborn king (although that didn't happen on Christmas Day). They apparently did not think that his birth was 'nothing special' as events go.Commercialization and Christmas have been linked together virtually from the beginning. I was watching a documentary and there really was not a time when there was not any commercialization of some form or another. I find it amusing that we hate commercialization but it's built into Christmas
Thank you again. That is a good point. The Reformers were not trying to abolish the Catholic Church, but to reform it. You are the first Lutheran I have talked to who admitted to being a Catholic still.No, Lutherans keep the Mass in Christmass.
"Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence." - Augusburg Confession, Article XXIV
Also, despite the protests from Rome to the contrary (pun probably intended) Lutherans are Catholic. We're just not Roman Catholic. As we continue to proclaim faith in and the faith of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
-CryptoLutheran
I decided this year not to buy anything during this month in protest of the commercialisation of Xmas. I'd like to encourage people to avoid excessive purchasing as the commercialisation of Xmas is devastatingly stressful to shop employees. I've also asked my family and friends not to purchase anything for me.
I am also curious about Lutherans celebrating the Christ Mass. Martin Luther disagreed about the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation - i.e., the belief that the wine and bread become the actual blood and body of Christ -do Lutherans still observe the Mass with the qualification that it is only symbolic?No, Lutherans keep the Mass in Christmass.
"Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence." - Augusburg Confession, Article XXIV
Also, despite the protests from Rome to the contrary (pun probably intended) Lutherans are Catholic. We're just not Roman Catholic. As we continue to proclaim faith in and the faith of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
-CryptoLutheran
I am also curious about Lutherans celebrating the Christ Mass. Martin Luther disagreed about the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation - i.e., the belief that the wine and bread become the actual blood and body of Christ -do Lutherans still observe the Mass with the qualification that it is only symbolic?
BTW, if one is defining catholic in its literal sense of universal, then all true followers of Christ are part of the catholic church. Many make the claim of apostolic, of which I put no stock in.
Commercialization and Christmas have been linked together virtually from the beginning. I was watching a documentary and there really was not a time when there was not any commercialization of some form or another. I find it amusing that we hate commercialization but it's built into Christmas
Gift giving has always been apart of Christmas since the beginning. I don't necessarily agree with the greed and materialism with Black Friday, but I don't see anything wrong with gift giving on Christmas Day, which for, you have to shop and prepare for before Christmas Day.
Xmas is an insult to the Christian faith.
My family generally does only very small gifts of "necessary items" (clothing, etc.) or foods. We occasionally include books we would recommend ... and we also make donations in someone's name.I decided this year not to buy anything during this month in protest of the commercialisation of Xmas. I'd like to encourage people to avoid excessive purchasing as the commercialisation of Xmas is devastatingly stressful to shop employees. I've also asked my family and friends not to purchase anything for me.
I had breakfast with my family followed by watching episodes of the Walking Dead for the rest of the day with a couple of porters. I went to Mass on Christmas Eve. I love the fact that for one entire day everything is closed and shops are empty.I've made it an effort over the last several years to avoid "Christmas Culture", you know that period from November 1st until December 25th where stores stock their shelves with Christmas themed paraphernalia and by the first of December you're hearing a barrage of Christmas and generic holiday music.
It has helped being part of a traditional liturgical tradition where the Season of Advent offers an opportunity for penitent and thoughtful reflection as we contemplate both the sufferings in this world as well as the hope of Christ--as Advent signifies both the anticipation before the First Advent (hence traditional Advent hymns such as Come, O Come Emmanuel, On Jordan's Banks the Baptist's Cry, and Come Thou Long Expected Jesus) as well as our present time of hopeful expectation as we look forward to Christ's Second Advent, His Parousia at the consummation of history.
In addition to this it means that Christmastide doesn't begin until Christmas Eve and the following twelve days of Christmas. According to "Christmas Culture" Christmas ends on December 25th, but liturgically December 25th is when Christmas officially begins and lasts until January 5th, followed by Holy Epiphany on January 6th.
So my Christmas plans this morning are pretty simple: I'll be going to church this morning, followed by watching the new Star Wars movie this afternoon, and gathering with family later on at the local Mongolian grill for a not-so-traditional Christmas dinner.
-CryptoLutheran
W pay a medicare levi of around 2% of taxable income. But many people are exempt as they are below the income threshold and others can minimize their income to only pay the minimum or none at all. That doesn't cover even 1/2 of whats needed so we are heading for a blowout. The government has to rob peter to pay Paul. In the mean time the populations getting older with the baby boomers retiring so we will have more older and not enough young tax payers to support the old age pensions who don't have self funded retirement funds. So we are headed for a big problem.
Those who spend up and cant afford it will affect everyone because their fallout becomes societies problems. It all adds to the credit blowout our country will face and puts up the average amount each person owes in credit. Australia has the highest personal debt in the world. With low interest rates at the moment people are borrowing big amounts of money because the repayments will be lower. But when the interest rates go back up which will happen there will be a lot of people in trouble similar to what happened in the US. The trouble is we dont learn and the boom bust cycle gets worse each time. There will be another big slow down and GFC and many will go broke including countries.
My family generally does only very small gifts of "necessary items" (clothing, etc.) or foods. We occasionally include books we would recommend ... and we also make donations in someone's name.
I see your feeling about Christmas ... I was similarly offended this year when one vendor that is well known in the US used "Thanksgetting" as its theme for Thanksgiving. Sadly our culture is growing more self- and ownership-centered.
Well the instant gratifications generation are a fair percentage of today's generation. All this 50 plus billion dollar spending at Christmas didn't come from saved cash. Its mostly from credit spending. That only means one thing that people didn't have the money in the first place and will have to pay it back. It,s also not just the instant gratification spending but there's a lot of spending on long term items like houses and cars. But it,s all fueled by credit and the fact that we have had a relatively good economy and the confidence was there plus the low interest rates.Australia's public health and education systems are awesome. There is absolutely no need for anyone to go private.
Can't agree on the blowout thing. I don't think that will happen there. Australia survived the GFC better than many.
As regards personal debt - blame the dumbing down of recent generations. The aspirational and acquisitive lunacy which has transformed the working class (and lower middle class) is a new phenomenon. In previous generations, this strata were more humble in their expectations for starters, and those who did want more expected to wait a long while to get it.
The instant gratification morons are a pox on the planet - in almost every respect. Aspirationals who don't have the intelligence or scruples to be measured in their grasping greed will ultimately kill us all - it's just a matter of when. The only hope is that there are enough people willing to stop the madness, to ameliorate the damage.
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