Worship or venerate,are they the same?

Frogster · Jan 1, 2010

What do you think?

Main Entry: 1wor·ship
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date: before 12th century
1 chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

Venerate.

Main Entry: ven·er·ate
Pronunciation: \ˈve-nə-ˌrāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ven·er·at·ed; ven·er·at·ing
Etymology: Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, from vener-, venus love, charm — more at win
Date: circa 1623
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Synonym

Entry Word: venerate
Function: verb
Meaning: to offer honor or respect to (someone) as a divine power <a proper setting in which to venerate God> — see

All from Merriam Webster.

Christos Anesti · Jan 1, 2010

Each term has mulitple defintions and it would depend on what sense the person was using (i.e. which of the definitions they intended to convey). It's like the word "hot" it can mean "of high temprature" or " really good looking" but it doesn't always mean both at once.

New_Wineskin · Jan 1, 2010

Frogster said:
What do you think?

Main Entry: 1wor·ship
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date: before 12th century
1 chiefly British : a person of importance used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

Venerate.

Main Entry: ven·er·ate
Pronunciation: \ˈve-nə-ˌrāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ven·er·at·ed; ven·er·at·ing
Etymology: Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, from vener-, venus love, charm more at win
Date: circa 1623
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Synonym

Entry Word: venerate
Function: verb
Meaning: to offer honor or respect to (someone) as a divine power <a proper setting in which to venerate God> see

All from Merriam Webster.

Of those that I have known that use "venerate" , they are either the same word or , what they do in how they "venerate" actually surpasses what they do in how they "worship" .

MamaZ · Jan 1, 2010

When one venerates someone they lift him or her up as exalted above others..

Rhamiel · Jan 1, 2010

english is such a tricky language, in latin the differance between the two can be described as dulia and latria, dulia is veneration that is appropriate for saints and latiria is the worship that belongs to God alone.
it is like earthly love, respect and devotion, everyone understands that we love our family but not as much as we love God, love of family is still a good thing as long as it does not get in the way of our love of God and become an idol

MamaZ · Jan 1, 2010

So latin does not have an english meaning?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 1, 2010

Worship......I rather like the way John uses it in Chapt 4 of his Gospel and in Revelation 22.

John 4:23 But is coming an hour and now is when the true worshipers/proskunhtai <4353> shall be worshipping/proskunhsousin <4352> (5692) to the Father in Spirit and Truth,
for also the Father such is seeking the ones worshipping Him.
24 A spirit the God, and the ones worshipping/proskunountaV <4352> (5723) Him in Spirit and Truth is binding to be worshipping/proskunein <4352> (5721)."

Reve 22:8 And I, John, the one hearing and beholding these things. And when I hear and behold, I fall to worship/proskunhsai <4352> (5658) before the feet of the Messenger, the one showing to me these-things. 9 And He is saying to me "be thou seeing no! a fellow bond-servant of thee I am and of the brothers of thee the prophets and of the ones keeping the Words of the scrollet, this. To the God worship/proskunhson <4352> (5657) thou!

Strong's Number G4353 matches the Greek προσκυνητής (proskynētēs), which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Greek concordance of the KJV

4353. proskunetes pros-koo-nay-tace' from 4352; an adorer:--worshipper.
4352. proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship.

Frogster · Jan 1, 2010

Christos Anesti said:
Each term has mulitple defintions and it would depend on what sense the person was using (i.e. which of the definitions they intended to convey). It's like the word "hot" it can mean "of high temprature" or " really good looking" but it doesn't always mean both at once.

Rhamiel said:
english is such a tricky language, in latin the differance between the two can be described as dulia and latria, dulia is veneration that is appropriate for saints and latiria is the worship that belongs to God alone.
it is like earthly love, respect and devotion, everyone understands that we love our family but not as much as we love God, love of family is still a good thing as long as it does not get in the way of our love of God and become an idol

I understand that language can vary,hot can have two different images,depends on who says what.

Ok,so accordingly we would have to look at imagery,to decipher the meaning.

To the one who says tempature,we would want to see a thermometer,or a good looking person.

So,then as far as worship goes,if we see one kneeling before a statue,what else could we presume,but worship buy the imagery which confirms the intended definition.

Here is the Hebrew for this verse.

Exodus 32:"They have quickly turned aside from the way which I commanded them. They have made for themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it and have sacrificed to it and said, This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!"

shachah 07812

Definition: 1) to bow down
1a) (Qal) to bow down
1b) (Hiphil) to depress (fig)
1c) (Hithpael)
1c1) to bow down, prostrate oneself
1c1a) before superior in homage
1c1b) before God in worship
1c1c) before false gods
1c1d) before angel

Frogster · Jan 1, 2010

New_Wineskin said:
Of those that I have known that use "venerate" , they are either the same word or , what they do in how they "venerate" actually surpasses what they do in how they "worship" .

yes,actions confirm the definition of venerate.

Christos Anesti · Jan 1, 2010

I understand what the phrase "bow down to" can imply . Not every instance of physically bowing implies that one is giving another the honor due only to God however . I bow to my Karate instructor but I can assure you I'm not worshiping him. Do the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese commit blasphemy every time they bow to each other? Saluting is very similar in purpose and meaning to bowing would that make our soldiers blasphemers too?

Frogster · Jan 1, 2010

Christos Anesti said:
I understand what the phrase "bow down to" can imply . Not every instance of physically bowing implies that one is giving another the honor due only to God however . I bow to my Karate instructor but I can assure you I'm not worshiping him. Do the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese commit blasphemy every time they bow to each other? Saluting is very similar in purpose and meaning to bowing would that make our soldiers blasphemers too?

How about kneeling?
Glad I am behind this screen,so you can't give me a karate chop!

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 1, 2010

Frogster said:
How about kneeling?
Glad I am behind this screen,so you can't give me a karate chop!

Wax on, wax off............

Frogster · Jan 1, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Wax on, wax off............

ROFLOL!

Thanks LLOJ,my wife and I ,just had a real hard laugh..that is sooo funny.Thanks,

Christos Anesti · Jan 1, 2010

I've been known to karate chop people right through the monitor of their computer! Actually I'm not into fighting I just like Karate 'cause its fun and good excersize. haven't gotten in a real fight since I was a kid in school.

I'm not sure all of what kneeling symbolizes in every instance. At my Church we don't kneel on Sunday but on some of other services we do.

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 1, 2010

Originally Posted by Frogster

How about kneeling?

There is also this interesting greek word

http://www.scripture4all.org/

#2578 used 4 times in 4 verses. 2 times in Romans, 1 each in Ephesians and Philippians

Romans 11:4 "But what is saying to him the divine-response 'I left to Myself seven-thousand who-any not bow/bend/ekamyan <2578> (5656) a knee to the baal <896>'"
[1 King 19:18]

Textus Rec.) Romans 11:4 alla ti legei autw o crhmatismoV katelipon emautw eptakisciliouV andraV oitineV ouk ekamyan gonu th baal

Strong's Number G2578 matches the Greek κάμπτω (kamptō), which occurs 5 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

2578. kampto kamp'-to apparently a primary verb; to bend:--bow.
1) to bend, bow, the knee (the knees) a) to one
1) in honour of one 2) in religious veneration b) used of worshippers 2) to bow one's self

Anglian · Jan 1, 2010

Dear frogster,

we have to remember, as our brother Rhamiel has pointed out, that Latin, and Greek (thanks LLOJ ) are subtler languages than English, and so to insist on one simple English word can cause a lot of trouble.

We all believe in the 10 commandments, so the common sense approach is to assume we all know we are not to worship idols. Therefore, Christian charity and common sense would suggest that when Christians genuflect or make prostrations the object of their worship is the Triune God. That is why some find it offensive when those from different cultural traditions insist on telling those from another what it is they are doing.

In my own Church it is common to make prostrations. Before the priest begins the Divine Liturgy he will prostrate himself before the altar. In doing this he humbles himself before the Lord. We do the same thing when we do likewise. Similarly, when we kiss an icon we are showing respect and love for the saint concerned - not worshipping him or her.

These distinctions require contextualising in English. What is also required, as I suggest, is a common sense realisation that our fellow Christians do not worship idols. Anyone who assumes they do is either ignorant of other cultural practices (which can be cured by greater knowledge) or out to be offensive (which can't).

A Happy 2010 to you and to all here.

peace,

Anglian

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 1, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
There is also this interesting greek word

Romans 11:4 "But what is saying to him the divine-response 'I left to Myself seven-thousand who-any not bow/bend/ekamyan <2578> (5656) a knee to the baal <896>'"
[1 King 19:18]

2578. kampto kamp'-to apparently a primary verb; to bend:--bow.
1) to bend, bow, the knee (the knees) a) to one
1) in honour of one 2) in religious veneration b) used of worshippers 2) to bow one's self

Another interesting verse is Luke 21:28 concerning the "redemption" of Jesus's followers.

Not sure if this word is a form of the word "bend" as used in Romans 11:4. Will have to study more on this.
The KJV/D-R versions have "look up", while most other Bible versions render it "straiten-up/upbend". Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet these-things to be becoming, up-bend/ana-kuyate <352> (5657)! and lift-up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the redemption/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye.

Strong's Number G352 matches the Greek ἀνακύπτω (anakyptō), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

352. anakupto an-ak-oop'-to from 303 (in the sense of reversal) and 2955; to unbend, i.e. rise; figuratively, be elated:--lift up, look up.
303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb; properly, up;
2955. kupto koop'-to probably from the base of 2949; to bend forward:--stoop (down).

Rhamiel · Jan 1, 2010

i have seen in movies of people getting knighted by the the king or queen of england, they kneel before the monarch, we can kneel before other people as a sign of deferance and respect, not always worship

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 1, 2010

Rhamiel said:
i have seen in movies of people getting knighted by the the king or queen of england, they kneel before the monarch, we can kneel before other people as a sign of deferance and respect, not always worship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0

Gregory Thompson · Jan 1, 2010

Frogster said:
What do you think?

Main Entry: 1wor·ship
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date: before 12th century
1 chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

Venerate.

Main Entry: ven·er·ate
Pronunciation: \ˈve-nə-ˌrāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ven·er·at·ed; ven·er·at·ing
Etymology: Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, from vener-, venus love, charm — more at win
Date: circa 1623
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Synonym

Entry Word: venerate
Function: verb
Meaning: to offer honor or respect to (someone) as a divine power <a proper setting in which to venerate God> — see

All from Merriam Webster.

Venerate seems similar to the passage in Romans chapter 13 that says to give honour where it is due . much different than worship . as with all passages, the root is love .

in applying worship for God and veneration for whom it is due . is the root heart motive love or obligation . examine yourself .

Worship or venerate,are they the same?

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