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awitch

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I have one more question on origins for you if you don't mind answering. What do you think is the explanation for the existence of human beings?

That would start with the existence of life, and again, I'm going to accept the scientific community's explanation of abiogenesis; that life was the result of the chemical reactions of organic compounds. Once life is replicating, evolutionary theory drives the diversity of species. Over the course of almost 4 billion years, homo sapiens now walk the planet.
 
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anonymous person

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Interesting thoughts. I always enjoy telling people who share your beliefs that such views are in fact compatible with certain interpretations of the Genesis account of creation in the Bible. There are some theistic evolutionists who are Christians who believe that God created human beings through this evolutionary process.

Now that we have discussed a bit about origins, I would like to ask you about meaning. Do you think that life has any purpose or meaning? If so, what is it?
 
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anonymous person

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I'm willing to get on this too. When I'm free answer questions proposed earlier.
Excellent Zoness! Welcome to the discussion. I will put to you the same questions I have asked of others with regards to the subject of origins. What do you think is the explanation for the existence of the universe?
 
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awitch

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Just as there are many Christians who accept non-theistic evolution.

Now that we have discussed a bit about origins, I would like to ask you about meaning. Do you think that life has any purpose or meaning? If so, what is it?

On a Universal scale, no, I don't think life has any meaning. I'd be surprised if there wasn't life somewhere else out there.

But on a personal scale, of course life has meaning. Especially since, in the scheme of things, our lives are so short and we only get to go around once. The nice thing is, we each get to decide what that meaning is and we're free to change it along it the way as we grow and learn.

Personally, I find meaning in my family, in my work, in my hobbies, and in my exploration of the world around me.
 
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ananda

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Good day, @anonymous person . I am well, and hope you are too.

For this Buddhist, it is unconjecturable to truly know and comprehend the nature regarding the existence of the universe. Such questions only creates speculative, unverifiable dogma & brings discontentment, conflict, and vexation to the minds of those pondering such things (AN 4.77).

If I may ask you some related questions in return: why do you believe that such questions should be asked (e.g. about the nature of the universe)? That is, what is the goal for asking?
 
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dlamberth

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An explanation for the existence of the Universe? Consciousness? I'm just guessing. I have no explanation for it's existence. The Universe, both the seen and unseen exist, what's all I really know. But if I were to shift and put on my God Loving hat, than I'd say that the Universe exist so that God may know It's self.
 
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anonymous person

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This is fascinating insight. Particularly the part where you speak about meaning and purpose on a universal scale. I agree with you here, that on a universal scale and in the absence of God, life has no meaning or purpose. I also agree with your assessment, that if we take as our explanation for the universe and human beings that which you have provided for us by way of response, then what is meaningful and purposeful when it comes to human beings personally, is ultimately determined by each individual person and can change depending on what each individual determines is meaningful. All of this leads to my third question. Is there a right and wrong way to go about living a meaningful and purposeful life? Who decides what is right and wrong when it comes to morality?
 
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Silmarien

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I'm culturally Christian, but would only confess to a Platonically inspired classical theism (with a bit of an existentialist edge to it). Not sure how interesting that would be to you, since it's fairly Christianity-lite, but I'm game if you are.
 
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Zoness

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Excellent Zoness! Welcome to the discussion. I will put to you the same questions I have asked of others with regards to the subject of origins. What do you think is the explanation for the existence of the universe?

I subscribe to the scientific consensus of the Big Bang. Of course, the why of this question is beyond me and thus I do not attribute any specific meaning to the origin of the universe. I would be interested to see what science discovers about the early universe and I am very interested in CERN's work with the LHC, so much so that I do volunteer data processing for their efforts.
 
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awitch

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I suppose most people will answer "god" when it comes to where morality comes from, but I find Divine Command Theory problematic (see the Euthyphro Dilemma). Besides, are we really supposed to think that casually murdering people was just dandy until Moses showed off the 10 Commandments?

Moral standards are set by societies. Ideally, they would be derived from experience, science, history, common sense, and a thorough analysis of risk and consequences of behaviors. I think factors that rely wholly on religious faith are actually detrimental to moral standards because it allows atrocities to be justified with the phrase, "in the name of God".
 
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anonymous person

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I'm culturally Christian, but would only confess to a Platonically inspired classical theism (with a bit of an existentialist edge to it). Not sure how interesting that would be to you, since it's fairly Christianity-lite, but I'm game if you are.
I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the four broad subjects concerning worldviews Silmarien. I've never interacted in depth with a platonically inspired classical theist so I hope to learn quite a bit. With regards to origins then, what do you say is the explanation for the existence of the universe?
 
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anonymous person

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When you use the word "unconjecturable" are you using it to mean "impossible", as if to say it is impossible to know the nature of the universe?

I think such questions should be asked because I want to familiarize myself with the different views about origins. I think it will help me better understand how to find common ground when talking with people who have different beliefs than I do.
 
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ananda

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When you use the word "unconjecturable" are you using it to mean "impossible", as if to say it is impossible to know the nature of the universe?
Yes: is it not all in the end merely guesses and opinions?

I think such questions should be asked because I want to familiarize myself with the different views about origins. I think it will help me better understand how to find common ground when talking with people who have different beliefs than I do.
I see. IMO, from my Buddhist perspective, such questions are ultimately irrelevant because - as stated above - all potential answers, from a conceptual level, can only be unverifiable guesses and opinions.

However, if I may reframe the matter at hand: in a sense, the universe exists on the phenomenological level because one's consciousness experiences it. The consciousness, attached to a desire for experiencing sense objects, causes it to come into conceptual being and existence in the mind.

Likewise, the universe ceases to exist when one's consciousness no longer experiences it. Detached, depriving desire of its fuel, one's experience of the universe ceases.

As I see it, ultimately, questions such as this are rooted in a desire to know & understand; and, when we do not know or understand, we experience discontentment. Therefore, the root problem is discontentment, which should be the real question.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Hey Jane_the_Bane! Glad to have you here. I am fascinated in the various views that people hold when it comes to the explanation of the existence of the universe. What do you think is its explanation for existing?
In terms of the "nuts and bolts", I'd say physics and the other sciences are doing a pretty good job at figuring out how the universe came to be and how everything ended up where it is right now.
Metaphysically speaking, I'm comfortable with admitting that I do not *know*, and consider my awareness of this a good vantage point to learn something new. (After all, if I believed I had it all figured out, there would be no reason to investigate any longer.)
As for my beliefs, I do not necessarily believe that the universe has a purpose in the human sense, and that meaning is mostly a human endeavour (or restricted to other self-aware organisms or alien beings that we haven't met yet). I like to think of us as the universe examining itself by separating tiny kernels of consciousness and, in this illusion of separation, allowing us to look at the rest "from the outside".
 
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Silmarien

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Traditional Greek thought views the universe as eternally existing, and I do not think that modern science has entirely invalidated this sort of idea. This means that you could probably still get away with believing in a physical reality that is eternally dying and being reborn from its own ashes, or producing secondary universes as a result of its own activities.

However, I do think that modern cosmology supports the idea that space and time are contingent properties of the universe that came into existence alongside it, so I prefer creatio ex nihilo to models in which physical matter pre-existed and was somehow involved in the birth of our universe.

I should say that the question that interests me is not why the universe exists, but why anything exists at all (including the laws of physics that so many seem to think have explanatory power on their own merits), so I tend not to get too caught up in the question of physical origins. I'm all about Necessary Being and have been moving cautiously into genuine Ontological Argument territory recently. If existence cannot be grounded in contingent physical laws, perhaps there's some value in an axiological approach by which abstract realities are brought into being by the very fact that their existence would enrichen reality and make it better. (This is pure Platonism.)
 
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Robban

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We all have our story, so it is doubtful if anyone will fully be able to understand anothers

mind.
But then it may be possible.

Universe, at about the age of 10 I gave up, it felt like my head was going to explode.

So now simply put,
Origin, Humpty Dumpty.
Meaning, picking up the pieces.
Moral, say it as it is.
Destiny, don,t take it laying down.

To sum up my simple view,

I do not think we can take that which is not given.

Example, Tree of life,

The way to the Tree of life is guarded by the blade of the revolving sword.

The blade of the revolving sword as in
revolving sword.

 
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AskTheFamily

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I don't believe the big bang theory is well supported even though it supports Theistic arguments for a Creator ( I won't get into detail).

I believe the Creator began everything with pure consciousness all created, tested us all his creation before they took on form in realms so that was before space and their form was beyond physical existence, and therein he tested us with his word, Mohammad was the first, and when seen by Ali, Ali caught up to him and jumped to his station, and both seen by Fatima, she embraced the light and became bright, and when all seen by Hassan and Hussain, they saw the reality through God's vision and goodness was known through Hassan and it being beautiful and God being beauty was known through Hussain. Then out of beauty of Hussain, and the rest of visions and lights of Imams, each of the 9 Imams of the offspring of Hussain saw beauty or praise or goodness or nature of light or exaltedness, through an aspect that is a complete and perfect aspect, and the virtues were created, and the circles of ascension was built from this first house and family brought out for the sake of humans and Jinn.

Before Humans were created, it was this family that God when he created the Angels, taught the Angels how to glorify himself, praise, and worship his great self.

They not having taking physical form, and the fire/light nature of Angels, they thought these being although greater, were closer to them then all other possible forms.

Then God to test their sincerity and bring up their ranks with a trial, tried them with a creation from clay form like substance, that is a human form.

They right away knowing of problems with their high intellect, predicted their would be much bloodshed if he gives representation to such a being.

Of course, they were right, humans are killing each other and fighting all for the crown of the name of God but God knows best and is the best to guide.

Delegations would get unnecessarily complicated if the family of the reminder took on form of Angels, and so by God his wisdom, to not have delegation problems where people claim to represent the hidden guides, vested the light of his spirit and the Mohammadiya reality, into Adam.

The Angels all humbly accepted the reality of Adam, but Iblis, who was the first born and the father of all hidden beings (Jinn). Infuriated that God blessed a clay like creature with representing him, he began to disbelieve and question the very God he worshipped his whole life.

Of course, there is no escaping the creator, so his rebellion obviously he convinced himself the voice and revelation to the Angels, was from a wrong and misguiding force, and so became the first antagonistic disbeliever towards the family of the reminder.

He then caused a dispute in the high council when he tricked Adam and Adam fell. Some Angels fell to and lost their station as Angels as a result, and became rebels to God, just as Iblis lost his status as Angel.

God never left after that the earth without a family of the reminder, but these group of Messengers and chosen ladies, came time and time, in different cultures, circumstances, and different pathways depending on dynamic factors of their time.

Finally God sealed revelation so that he can unite people on a family of the reminder, and actually the very first house set for the sake of humanity, before humans came to this world.

The best of those who race ahead, the chosen of all chosen, and so that humans unite, and fulfill their pledges with the revelations of the Messengers through out the earth, and uphold the covenant of God as one people, he put an end to revelations and promised to protect this one, as well put it upon himself to manifest it just as it was upon him to recite the reminder, so it's upon him to explain it and manifest it's true interpretation and light.

But the story of envy and ingratitude repeated itself, and people relied on ambiguities rather then clear proofs, and people embraced the mockery and monkey king illusions towards God's religion, where by Iblis over powered the few friends of God who embraced the path of guarding and held on by the heart of love, which is fear, since fear appreciates what we have the most by guarding it with all the might of love.

God as a result of humans and Jinn rebellion, hid his final proof, to this day, where as his light is manifest as the name of God is the only thing that can connect us to God, his human form is hidden from the people and while the drunk in intoxication of love of idols seek to replace his leadership and mastery by those who are not worthy, the friends of God are awaiting his return, and will not undermine the chosen ones by equating non-chosen with their position of authority.

The heart of battle between good and evil, lies, in understanding this truth. The Torah iterates well, the Gospels emphasize and perfect that message, and Quran brings these two to a whole new level and embraces all holy books aside from these still spread around the earth.

And God is our Master, he guides through his anointed Kings who are chosen by him and purified by him and exalted above others through being vested his holy spirit, and aside from God and the chosen Guides, there is no guidance, no authority, no mastery, no leadership, no way, no path....

This trial is the reality of the origin of the universe, and all hidden realms, come through the existence and reality of the word of God, the Exalted Ones, who are all each the word of God and the word of God is with them in ways beyond our understanding and appreciation.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Personally, I consider morality a collective human endeavour, not a metaphysical phenomenon.
It's a bit like social conventions (which are often mixed with and/or perceived as part of morality), except that the measuring stick is not as random as deciding whether it's more polite to finish a dish or to leave something on the plate. Actual ethics tends to go more along the lines of: "If I eat/serve this thing here, will it cause harm?"

My spirituality (which focuses mostly on knowing myself and others better) contributes to my moral conduct by fostering empathy and understanding, but that does NOT render ethics a spiritual endeavour in and of itself. I do not treat others well to appease a cosmic judge, score afterlife points, or reach a higher plane of consciousness: I treat them well because I wish them well, and because I realise that a climate where people harm each other is not healthy for me and my own well-being, either.
 
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holo

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So tell me, if you have a view on this, what is the explanation for the existence of the universe?
The short and honest answer: I have no idea, and I don't expect to find out exactly why there is anything as opposed to nothing, or that I'll be able to understand the answer.

According to evolutionary theory we're "designed" to understand stuff that makes a difference to our ability to survive and spread our genes. That's why we can quickly recognize a snake but be pretty bad at understanding quantum physics, though quantum physics may be every bit as real as the snake. Our brains simply didn't evolve to grasp stuff like that easily (if they did, we probably wouldn't be good at spotting the snakes).
 
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