Women's input on personal issues....please?

Heismyrock2 · Oct 6, 2009

Okay...nobody knows who I am (hopefully) so I'm going to just tell it like it is (which I couldn't do with the people I know). BTW I see a men's only section on the board but not a womens only??

I left my husband after 16 years of marriage. He is an alcoholic and sex addict. After he realized I was serious this time about remaining separated, he checked himself into a Christian rehab. A few weeks into it (after persistent questions from me) he disclosed that he has been having affairs throughout our entire marriage!! He said he doesn't really know how many women he has been with maybe a dozen or so. He said he always used a condom...whew that makes it all better, right?

Anyway, here I am raising my kids, alone for more than 6 months now. I have never had any problem with lust (I barely had any drive for sex at all). But now I'm finding myself completely out of control in my thought life. I can't sleep because I am both physically and emotionally longing for sex! This just started about a month ago. It is horrible! I feel like I'm out of control (even though I have not done anything wrong). I don't view porn and I'm not interested in that and I don't watch movies or tv or read romance novels. Where is this coming from?? Does this mean that I can't remain alone? I'm in my early 30's, does something happen to women at this age? Could it be that I'm an addict too? My husband liked to have sex with me sometimes 3-4 times a day/night (which I hear is not normal!).

I feel very vulnerable right now. If a good looking guy showed interest, I actually think I could fall into the same sin that my husband did. I must say I'm beginning to have a lot more sympathy for him.

Can any women pm me with some advice, insight or personal experiences?

Thank you

b.hopeful · Oct 6, 2009

You here if often.....here is no exception...that men need sex to bond and feel loved...well, I think women are no different.

Do you think it's the sex or intimacy that you crave? Sex is so intimate to me...literally letting someone come inside your body. If you are a passionate person that craves intimacy, of course your body is going to burn for sex because that is the simplest way to express passion and intimacy. Personally, I think it's normal.

You need an outlet. I don't have a problem with masturbation so my suggestion is a vibrator, some romance novels or even a journal for your own fantasies.

BUT!!!! Do NOT feel sorry for your husband. He cheated. That's a major character flaw no matter what is going on in the marriage. It shows a complete lack of respect for you too.

eatenbylocusts · Oct 6, 2009

I agree with b.hopeful. Hormones can start to go wacky at your age. If you're still legally married then dating isn't an option and this can keep you from being vulnerable to some sweet talking man. Don't even go there.

The issue may be how do you protect yourself from getting back together with your h if he isn't healed? Are you talking to a counselor? How about support groups at church, a small group or women's Bible study where you might find a mentor or accountability partner?

I've been divorced about 6 years, separated more than 10. My hormones have tortored me throughout my dating years. I haven't been an angelic pure angel, but have managed to abstain from intercourse since my ex. Hopefully my waiting will be over soon and my fiance and I will be married by spring.

annrobert · Oct 13, 2009

Heismyrock2 said:
Okay...nobody knows who I am (hopefully) so I'm going to just tell it like it is (which I couldn't do with the people I know). BTW I see a men's only section on the board but not a womens only??

I left my husband after 16 years of marriage. He is an alcoholic and sex addict. After he realized I was serious this time about remaining separated, he checked himself into a Christian rehab. A few weeks into it (after persistent questions from me) he disclosed that he has been having affairs throughout our entire marriage!! He said he doesn't really know how many women he has been with maybe a dozen or so. He said he always used a condom...whew that makes it all better, right?

nope definately not.The pain is real and deep.

Anyway, here I am raising my kids, alone for more than 6 months now. I have never had any problem with lust (I barely had any drive for sex at all). But now I'm finding myself completely out of control in my thought life. I can't sleep because I am both physically and emotionally longing for sex! This just started about a month ago. It is horrible! I feel like I'm out of control (even though I have not done anything wrong). I don't view porn and I'm not interested in that and I don't watch movies or tv or read romance novels. Where is this coming from?? Does this mean that I can't remain alone? I'm in my early 30's, does something happen to women at this age? Could it be that I'm an addict too? My husband liked to have sex with me sometimes 3-4 times a day/night (which I hear is not normal!).

Since your husband (has been ) is an alcoholic and an habitual cheater,
I cannot see how the two of you were ever able to be close and bonded the way it should have been.If he is out cheating ,he must have never been close to you in a real way, therefore you could not be close to him in a real way.Do not be fooled sex is much more than just sex.It requires intimacy.Just because you had sex does not mean you were close actually.This is what I think you may be craving, real closeness.Since being seperated this may have allowed this need to surface.It is great you are staying away from tv and romance novels and such.That would be very harmful to a mind I think.I would try to make sure you keep your thoughts pure and wholesome.Maybe try listening to worship music and prayer and bible reading,Walks in nature,visiting, church involvement,visit a zoo, make a good friend.Feel free to go to Jesus with this and keep going to Him with it.He cares about you.

Hebrews 4:16

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Ephesians 4:23

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Romans 12:2

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Philippians 4:8

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Mark 7:21

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications,....

I feel very vulnerable right now. If a good looking guy showed interest, I actually think I could fall into the same sin that my husband did. I must say I'm beginning to have a lot more sympathy for him.

Maybe be sure to not be alone with any guys.Save yourself any pain or regrets.Pray for your husband but do not let him hurt you anymore.

Can any women pm me with some advice, insight or personal experiences?

Thank you

I hope and wish all the best to you.

Heismyrock2 · Oct 13, 2009

Thank you! These are all great scriptures!

God has been dealing with me in many areas. One area that has been huge is that I try to escape the pain of things instead of going through it and feeling the pain and allowing God to work through the pain.

I realized that this is what I was trying to do. Since realizing this God has brought me to a place where I have forgiven my husband for his trespasses against me. Once I chose (and daily choose) forgiveness, most of the sexual issues that I was battling with disappeared. God has been good and continues to be good! I have also been able to see that forgiveness doesn't mean that I have to go back to my husband.

Again, THANK YOU for your prayers and comments.

pepper1 · Oct 13, 2009

Not a woman but this phrase was concerning "(I barely had any drive for sex at all)", if this was going on for any length of time that could explain why he has been cheating, I highly doubt he is a sex addict (the terms sex addict and alcholic are thown around way to loosly), depending on age 2-3 times a day is not unreasonable, for a couple in their early to mid 20's I would say once a day is perfect sometimes twice a day. If you are in your late 20's early 30's I would say 5 times a week with twice a day sprinkled in there (like a lazy saturday). Regardless of what bible bashing you want to do most men will not tolerate the bolded phrase above, they will either divorce you or cheat or in rare instances be incredibly depressed and not really want to be around you. Depending on how many years you cheated him out of will depend on how resentful he is, since he was cheating he probably will not be resentful. I really resent these women that neglected there husband when he was in his sexual peak and now that they are in there sexual peak expect preformance that would almost drive someone to murder there sposue litterally becasue you have basicly defrauded them out of something they can never get back.

Heismyrock2 · Oct 14, 2009

I understand what you (pepper1) are saying here. Although, in the first half of our marriage I did not understand this about men and we never had any premarital counseling nor anyone who gave us advice. So, I admit that the first half of our marriage I was not a willing participant in our marriage bed. I was usually so mad at him for spending nights away from home that I didn't want him to touch me.

But in the last half of our marriage I began to read books and understand the real differences between men and women. I then began to be attentive to his sexual needs. By the way, the reason I know that he needs sex 3-4 times a day is because for the last 3 years I had been having sex with him that often. And even though I didn't have much of a sex drive I still participated willingly and believe me it wasn't boring same old, same old!!

The unfortunate thing is that the cheating continued through the last part of our marriage too. There really needs to be more premarital counseling in the church! I think it should be a requirement. I was only 16 when we met and 17 when we married! How was I supposed to have known what it took to be a good wife?

Regardless, I think that blaming one's sin (adultry) on another person is the most ridiculous and immature thing I have heard!! I accept my failures in our marriage as mine and mine alone...even if some of them were due to a lack of knowledge, they are still my sins and nobody else is responsible for them.

pepper1 · Oct 14, 2009

Heismyrock2 said:
I understand what you (pepper1) are saying here. Although, in the first half of our marriage I did not understand this about men and we never had any premarital counseling nor anyone who gave us advice. So, I admit that the first half of our marriage I was not a willing participant in our marriage bed. I was usually so mad at him for spending nights away from home that I didn't want him to touch me.

But in the last half of our marriage I began to read books and understand the real differences between men and women. I then began to be attentive to his sexual needs. By the way, the reason I know that he needs sex 3-4 times a day is because for the last 3 years I had been having sex with him that often. And even though I didn't have much of a sex drive I still participated willingly and believe me it wasn't boring same old, same old!!

The unfortunate thing is that the cheating continued through the last part of our marriage too. There really needs to be more premarital counseling in the church! I think it should be a requirement. I was only 16 when we met and 17 when we married! How was I supposed to have known what it took to be a good wife?

Regardless, I think that blaming one's sin (adultry) on another person is the most ridiculous and immature thing I have heard!! I accept my failures in our marriage as mine and mine alone...even if some of them were due to a lack of knowledge, they are still my sins and nobody else is responsible for them.

How long were you defrauding him? I dont think its an issue of blaming ones sin on another, I think its just a matter of him having a need and getting it met how ever he could, I doubt he ever blamed you for his cheating but he was going to get it somewhere to avoid wanting to kill you...literally, your lucky he did not divorce you, probably because he was cheating. I very much agree that the church has dropped the ball on sex, talking about sex etc they have dropped it and have not even tried to run after it, the ball is off in the woods somewhere probably half deflated. It has gotten so bad that the church has lost all credibility when it comes to issues of sex, marriage, divorce and remarriage in my opinion.

As far as him continuing cheating depending on how long you defrauded him it has become a habit, or maybe there is something one of his other GF's does in bed that you dont do, im just speculating.

Heismyrock2 · Oct 14, 2009

sounds as if you are all too familiar with this whole cheating bit. It also sounds as if you are quite bitter about something. Did your wife defraud you and caused you to sin by committing adultry with a dozen women or so??

If a wife isn't performing her end of the marriage by giving good sex then why doesn't the husband get them both into some good sound counseling instead of cheating on her?

pepper1 · Oct 15, 2009

Heismyrock2 said:
sounds as if you are all too familiar with this whole cheating bit. It also sounds as if you are quite bitter about something. Did your wife defraud you and caused you to sin by committing adultry with a dozen women or so??

If a wife isn't performing her end of the marriage by giving good sex then why doesn't the husband get them both into some good sound counseling instead of cheating on her?

I agree, counseling should be tried first, but if the counseling fails thats when the cheating usually starts or resumes. Also alot of younger people are not aware of the counseling options and its just easier to go out and get it somewhere else. Im not stating right or wrong im just stating what is. I would think it would be basic common sense that a man at his age would want 24/7 sex so I have no idea why you would deny him even in the absense of books or counseling why do you think he married you, if he was asexual he would probably have gotten his PhD in physics instead or his MD. Im not bitter but I have had that experince only the counseling failed in my case in the past I am much happier now but I experienced first hand the destruction that defrauding can cause. You can say its his sin because he cheated but that does not change what happened at the end of the day, pointing fingers does not do any good, people are going to do what they need to do and either your there for him or your not.

Macx · Oct 15, 2009

His first wife dumped him less than 2 years in, guess he is quieter in person than he is on the forums about his extrabiblical philosophies, er it woulda likely been shorter. Pepper/ Taku alleges that he is remarried, but never talks about his current wife or gives any indication that . . . she isn't imaginary.

I read articulate sentences like:

I dont think its an issue of blaming ones sin on another, I think its just a matter of him having a need and getting it met how ever he could, I doubt he ever blamed you for his cheating but he was going to get it somewhere to avoid wanting to kill you...literally, your lucky he did not divorce you, probably because he was cheating.

Thinking through basic grammar, thinking about the bragging about the 80K job and realize it doesn't line up.

defrauded

Where did that term come from? He uses it alot, but I can't think of a place in the Bible it is used unless perhaps of Jacob to Laban or Esau to Jacob. It certainly isn't used the way he uses the word. So where did it come from? What is the source of Pepper's philosophy? Even wrong things have to be learned somewhere. I don't know of any churches or even cults that use the terms Pepper uses in the context that he uses them. I am terribly curious & like a badly written book, though with engaging characters, I just can't seem to quit reading and responding.

Heismyrock2 · Oct 15, 2009

I suppose you would probably expect this answer to come from him but I happen to have spent some time in prayer and in the Word over the past few days. I hunger after the TRUTH even if it is not the most pleasent thing to hear. Anyway here is what the Lord has shown me regarding this word DEFRAUD...

It is only used 5 times in the Bible:

Le 19:13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

Mr 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

1Co 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

1Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

Webster’s dictionary defines defraud to take away or withhold money, rights, property, etc., from (a person) by fraud; cheat; swindle.

The word comes from the Greek word aposterhoe which means to “rob,” “despoil,” “defraud,” “to withhold a payment of a debt,” and “to flick way.

1 Cor. 7:5 This is a continuation of the point Paul started making in verse three. Within marriage one partner does not have the right to withhold normal sexual relationships from his or her mate. Here Paul gives the guidelines for the only exception to this instruction.
To withdraw sexually from marriage, there must be mutual consent for a limited period of time for the express purpose of seeking God through fasting and prayer. No other exceptions are given.

The fact that fasting is involved during this time of separation means that this is a relatively short period of time. Any couple who has stopped sexual relationships for extended periods of time is not functioning in a healthy physical relationship.

1 Cor. 7:5: The word "incontinency" means "want of self-restraint." Instead of Paul telling the individuals to get their desires in line, he commanded the sexual relationship to resume so that the temptation would be diminished. The answer to sexual immorality is not unlimited relations within marriage, but infrequency of relations within marriage is a temptation which Paul commanded couples to avoid.

Even though it was in ignorance that I defrauded my husband, it still is a sin. It is listed right along with ADULTRY and MURDER in Mark 10:19. Therefore it is just as serious of a sin as the adultry. Through God's grace and mercy He has led me to a place of COMPLETE forgiveness of my husbands sin of adultry by helping me to see the plank in my own eye first.

God is good!

Macx · Oct 15, 2009

I don't know of any churches or even cults that use the terms Pepper uses in the context that he uses them.

What translation are you using? That'd be my point. Not that the word "defraud" doesn't occur in the Bible, but that it doesn't occur in the context he (Pepper/Taku) uses it. In Taku's mind this passage

1Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

would seem to indicated that Christian men should not deny each other oral sex. You do realize that is the soap box you are defending when you defend Pepper . . . when he speaks of wives defrauding, he has in previous threads & under his former screen name:

taku60

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Originally Posted by mkgal1

That seems like such a simple question...but, it really is complicated. Sex is an expression of love and commitment. I heard it explained that the sex is proportionate to the commitment--almost as if one leg is commitment and the other is sexual intimacy. One closely follows the other--but they dependent on one another for a healthy marriage. In a marriage without issues (communication is open and conflicts are resolved), the answer is that there needs to be a compromise on the behalf of both spouses. The one with the lower sex drive ends up having sex a few times more than they would have chosen, but lovingly do so. Likewise, the one with the higher sex drive goes without a few times, but also lovingly does so.

In a conflicted marriage, it is a different situation....how can there be an expression of something that isn't there? That causes the woman to feel like a prostitute, and the effect is a greater bitterness towards her husband.

I have to disagree, it is much more burdensome for a higher drive spouse to go without than it is for a lower drive spouse to give the higher drive spouse OS even if they dont get off themselves. I dont equate these 2 as being equal.

taku60

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Biblically the higher drive and more adventerous spouse should control the helm, man has twisted it to be the lower drive and more prudish spouse controls the helm and hence your 50% christian divorce rate. There is no reason a man or woman can not give there spouse what they want when they want it, sex is not rocket science so there really are no excuses and refusal is equivalent to unfaithfulness. It sounds like she has every right to divorce and move on and just wont do it, she cant force him to change and at this point she is just wasting her life.

taku60

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Originally Posted by Macx

What specific lies?

<staff edit>

To bite just this once the first lie is that sexual acts must be agreeable by both when in fact the bible states they only have to be agreeable to one

the second is that sexual neglect is not unfaithfulness thus promoting that its ok for wives to neglect there husbands.
Last edited by Prissanna; 14th September 2009 at 09:52 PM. Reason: PM sent

Of course if you wanna support this guy, you can . . . Heismyrock2. I find, no churches or even cults that use the terms Pepper uses in the context that he uses them.

myanchor · Oct 15, 2009

Okay Heismyrock, I sort of agree with you. Remove the plank in your eye first. It feels like a plank when it is a small splinter because it is really up close and personal.

God sees all sin as the same. Yet, there are some sins that have a huge impact, some a big impact and some medium or small impact. They vary from person to person what the impact is. But almost invariably, adultery is a huge impact.
Being hurt and therefore not wanting to make love is a lesser impact for most people. Being a nasty witch and denigrating your husband and telling him I would rather do my brother than you would have a comparatively greater impact. I not saying that is what you did, now, okay? Continually denying him your love in the way he needs it would cause things to grow into a greater impact every time you said no.

But it still way way less in its impact and therefore seriousness to the marriage than adultery.

visionary · Oct 15, 2009

The Lord can take away this sexual desire that has risen up in you if you want. It will be there when He provides the man for you into your life.

Heismyrock2 · Oct 15, 2009

I am not defending Pepper/Taku...I think he has some serious issues and I haven't even read the posts that you are referring too! It sounds as though he is hanging on to unforgiveness and bitter in the most extreme form.

I am not stating that I caused my husbands unfaithfulness either but God has convicted me in a big way as to how I have sinned in the marriage as well. Just because his (my husbands) sin may appear to be a "larger" sin does not negate or minimize my sin.

I don't think that women are taught this (defrauding) concept that is clearly a biblical concept. As a result our christian men are left frustrated and up against a wall that is sure to fall down over time. I get it and hope that other women will get it too before it is too late.

Macx said:
What translation are you using? That'd be my point. Not that the word "defraud" doesn't occur in the Bible, but that it doesn't occur in the context he (Pepper/Taku) uses it. In Taku's mind this passage would seem to indicated that Christian men should not deny each other oral sex. You do realize that is the soap box you are defending when you defend Pepper . . . when he speaks of wives defrauding, he has in previous threads & under his former screen name:

Of course if you wanna support this guy, you can . . . Heismyrock2. I find, no churches or even cults that use the terms Pepper uses in the context that he uses them.

myanchor · Oct 15, 2009

Yup, I Cor 7:4 clearly states that each spouse is part owner of the other and their bodies are for the use and enjoyment of one another.

I add that to me abuse or unrighteous use doing things that the other doesn't agree to are not right.

For example I have no desire to get strung up and whipped by my wife. And would refuse a request to do so. Some folks do it and like it. I just don't get that, and couldn't participate in something like as either the giver or receiver of pain. That's kind of an extreme example, but I think you get the point.

Conservativation · Oct 16, 2009

Defrauding IS the right term.

One thing I found REALLY interesting early in this thread was that several women rushed in to suggest that the OP needs to really examine herself and see if it REALLY was a physical desire OR (implied...the more virtuous) the desire for emotional closeness.

Sheesh, even when a WOMAN mentions sex its shoved over as the physical side couldnt possibly be whats nagging her. Good gravy.

This OP has landed upon something here that is profound, and I saluet her. No way is she justifying the moronic immature actions of the husband...but what she has done is figure something out that will make the next marriage (if thats what happens) look in a way that makes folks say "whats their secret"

myanchor · Oct 16, 2009

Heismyrock2, look over in the recovery section about women struggles.

I don't know if that is the place you want because I can't go in there.

Well, if I was a real twit and signed up as a woman I could, but I like being a guy. I can write my name in the snow without using my hands.

Heismyrock2 · Oct 16, 2009

Thank you to everyone who's encouraged me and offered advice. All that I can really say is that a month ago I wanted to fly across the country and take a bat to my husband or to have an affair of my own and casually let him know so he could feel what I felt. So, the fact that God has led me to this point of understanding is purely the Holy Spirits doing and not my own, as I know that it is humanly impossible to forgive something like this. It is also only the Holy Spirit that has opened my eyes to see and understand my sin, which is beginning to give me "peace which surpasses all understanding"!

Thank you myanchor for directing me into the correct forum. Right after I posted the OP someone told me about the women's forum but it was too late as I had already posted.

In hindsight I'm glad that I posted it on this forum for all to see (men & women). Where else can you anonymously post something like this and hear mens perspective.

Women's input on personal issues....please?

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