Why?

Mjonller · Jul 3, 2006

Why do people such as Hovind, and Phelps try to change people to do what thier bible says? Who agrees that they should be quiet and allow people to do what they want?

FadingWhispers3 · Jul 3, 2006

It is the nature of certain religions to seek unification of belief. Some genuinely believe that the world would be better off if everyone believed as they do. Just imagining that kind of world is terrifying enough to frighten grown men.

In the case of Phelps, I'm sure that he has no interest in changing people to do as his conception of the bible says. In fact, Phelps seems to take not some small measure of delight in the idea that many people are disobediant and thus will suffer forever and ever.

Kgreg · Jul 3, 2006

Mjonller said:
Why do people such as Hovind, and Phelps try to change people to do what thier bible says? Who agrees that they should be quiet and allow people to do what they want?[/quote]

Of the Sodomit Agenda, this would be:

Discrediting of scriptures that condemn homosexuality

Muzzling of the clergy and Christian media

Granting of special privileges and rights in the law

Indoctrinating children and future generations through public education

Securing all the legal benefits of marriage for any two or more people who claim to have homosexual tendencies

Please refer to the OP's quote of Dr. Dobson for the origin of these points. Thanks.

Mjonller · Jul 3, 2006

Kgreg I am not talking about the "Sodomit Agenda", I am talking about the hate and close-minded idealism these people Preach.

Caylin · Jul 4, 2006

Kgreg said:
Mjonller said:

Why do people such as Hovind, and Phelps try to change people to do what thier bible says? Who agrees that they should be quiet and allow people to do what they want?[/quote]

Of the Sodomit Agenda, this would be:

Discrediting of scriptures that condemn homosexuality

Muzzling of the clergy and Christian media

Granting of special privileges and rights in the law

Indoctrinating children and future generations through public education

Securing all the legal benefits of marriage for any two or more people who claim to have homosexual tendencies

Click to expand...

Kgreg, can you kindly tell us where my little brother said anything about homosexuals?

sister_maynard · Jul 4, 2006

That's your little brother? Welcome to Debate World, kid. Argue long and prosper.
I don't agree that they should be quiet, for I value free speech above nearly everything. "Trying to change people to do what their Bible says" is evangelism, which is perfectly acceptable. The problem lies in the fact that they've taken a bare handful of verses and used them for hateful persecution whilst ignoring all the "love one another" bits. I have yet to hear Phelps breathe a word about God's infinite love and forgiveness. Selective ministry based on hate-filled venom isn't in keeping with Christianity at all.

Caylin · Jul 4, 2006

sister_maynard said:
That's your little brother? Welcome to Debate World, kid. Argue long and prosper.
I don't agree that they should be quiet, for I value free speech above nearly everything. "Trying to change people to do what their Bible says" is evangelism, which is perfectly acceptable. The problem lies in the fact that they've taken a bare handful of verses and used them for hateful persecution whilst ignoring all the "love one another" bits. I have yet to hear Phelps breathe a word about God's infinite love and forgiveness. Selective ministry based on hate-filled venom isn't in keeping with Christianity at all.

Yep, he found this site when I pointed him here.

Vylo · Jul 4, 2006

Kgreg said:
Mjonller said:

Why do people such as Hovind, and Phelps try to change people to do what thier bible says? Who agrees that they should be quiet and allow people to do what they want?[/quote]

Of the Sodomit Agenda, this would be:

Discrediting of scriptures that condemn homosexuality

Muzzling of the clergy and Christian media

Granting of special privileges and rights in the law

Indoctrinating children and future generations through public education

Securing all the legal benefits of marriage for any two or more people who claim to have homosexual tendencies

Click to expand...

*bangs head on table*.

1. Not all of those are even remotely applicable.

2. No one mentioned homosexuality, but I suppose we can forgive your fixation.

Robinsegg · Jul 4, 2006

There are always those who try to use fear/hate to control people. That's also always wrong.

I don't believe in trying to expect non-Christians to act in accordance with Scripture. But I do believe in letting non-Christians know what Scripture says. Hoping that everyone will follow the Way isn't wrong. Trying to force them to do it (say, like in the Inquisition) is wrong. It comes down to motives and actions. Phelps is just downright wrong in his approach. I can't speak to his motives, but his actions come across as hateful.

Rachel

kopilo · Jul 4, 2006

I believe for the sake of humanity and christianity we should consider public muting of people such as Phelps and Hovind.

There has to be a line where the public display of personal beliefs is not allowed to cross over to try to pretend to represent any one religion.

HisEagle · Jul 4, 2006

Dracon427 said:
Yep, he found this site when I pointed him here.

So long as you realize that if he's big enough to get involved with the debates, he should be prepared for what people say in response to him.

Now, what I would personally like to add is this:

Don't Hovind and Phelps have the same Constitutional right to Freedom of Speech that everyone else has?

Answer the question, please, Mjonller.

Kopilo said:
There has to be a line where the public display of personal beliefs is not allowed to cross over to try to pretend to represent any one religion.

I don't agree with their tactics, but I recognize they have the right to say it. It sounds to me like YOU are the one wanting to shut people up for not agreeing with you.

Mjonller · Jul 4, 2006

Yes, of course they do, I agree that people such as these have a right to free speech. However, I do not agree in their principles of starting hate groups and such as going to funerals and yelling at the berieved family members that they died because of gay people. Or that Hovind is suggesting that religious beliefs should be taught in school while trying to disprove evolution.

ALSO I might add, that Kgreg's response was totally off topic. Kopilo is also correct that a personal belief should not represent any one religion. I also dont agree with your own tactic of "You said this which means you actully means this", it is used to often in debates such as this.

fillerbunny · Jul 4, 2006

While I admittedly wish people like Phelps and Hovind would keep quiet, the reality is that the same freedoms that protect my right to speak my mind also protect their rights to do the same. Regardless of how vile, reprehensible, disrespectful, or foolish I may feel their words and actions to be (and believe me, I do), freedom comes first.

It is my hope that their continued exercise of said freedoms will result in the public's seeing them for what they truly are. (Already happening with Phelps.) Once they're stripped of their audiences, my guess is, they'll be doing a lot less performing.

Welcome to the board, Mjonller.. it's good to have you.

kopilo · Jul 4, 2006

groundhog said:
I don't agree with their tactics, but I recognize they have the right to say it. It sounds to me like YOU are the one wanting to shut people up for not agreeing with you.

There is a difference between wanting people to shut up, and trying to prevent mis-representations.

Ohh and I don't have the same constitutional rights as Phelps or Hovind; if that makes any difference whatsoever.

Robinsegg · Jul 4, 2006

kopilo said:
Ohh and I don't have the same constitutional rights as Phelps or Hovind; if that makes any difference whatsoever.

You don't live in the US? Sorry, you don't show a national flag, so it's hard to tell.

Rachel

kopilo · Jul 4, 2006

Robinsegg said:
You don't live in the US? Sorry, you don't show a national flag, so it's hard to tell.

Rachel

It's all good, nah I don't live in the US.

Caylin · Jul 4, 2006

groundhog said:
So long as you realize that if he's big enough to get involved with the debates, he should be prepared for what people say in response to him.

I fail to see what this has to do with my query to kgreg. What did he say that warrneted kgreg screaming about the homosexual agenda?

sister_maynard · Jul 4, 2006

Someone had Dobson's "Sodomite Agenda" scare tactic tripe up earlier. Given that Phelps doesn't ever really say anything but "gays are going to hell," I guess the issues were connected.

NothingButTheBlood · Jul 5, 2006

So basically when people judge all Islam on terrorist activities they are bigots but when people judge Christianity on a few extremeist they are being responcible citizens?

KarateCowboy · Jul 5, 2006

Mjonller said:
Why do people such as Hovind, and Phelps try to change people to do what thier bible says? Who agrees that they should be quiet and allow people to do what they want?

Part of allowing "people to do what they want" involves letting them convince others to do certain things, necessarilly.

Why?

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