@soothfish: great post.
Well the forum has a purpose and a statement of purpose and a set of rules to facilitate that purpose. It seems that your purpose for using this website is different. What is your purpose for using this website? If you don't mind telling me I'm sure it would help me to respond to you accordingly.
Originally it was simply trying to get others to accurately understand my point of view, to have them actually understand where I'm coming from, and why I believe, or disbelieve what I do. However, as it became clearer that was just never going to happen, I started watching why that was.
For me it was because I love life in all it's forms, even the mosquito and fly are marvelous creatures despite that I don't tolerate their interaction with me. So I love the one who gave me life and who gave life to all of us, this is why I approached Him asking to be shown the truth. In fact when I made that appeal to Him I specifically asked for the truth so I could solve the problems created by religion. I think I've told you this before, I was motivated after watching that movie "Religulous" and becoming so upset by the religious freaks who are trying to bring on armageddon.
I agree, life, and the universe in itself is an incredible thing to marvel at, to wonder about, and even attempt to comprehend. If there was an "intelligence" behind it's creation, it must be so massive, and unfathomable that if you told me you knew what it was, I would never believe you. The universe itself defies comprehension, a creator could only be moreso. That's why I'm an agnostic atheist.
But of course, within two days of now this glimpse of who I am, will be lost on those who read it, and I will be just another one of "them."
Having said this, I don't know whether you would be motivated in the same way, as I understand some people just don't have as much love for life.
It motivates curiosity, but not the immediate need for an answer.
I was referring to your attitude. You have a bad attitude about Christianity and you've explained why that is. Still though, you seem to be content with holding grudges instead of forgiving, this is why I said you seem to see the glass half empty.
Yes, I absolutely have a negative view of Christians. I believe it's justified, I am yet to see much of anything to make it seem positive, I would characterize that as glass all-the-way-empty. And yes, I'm generally content to hold grudges. I've learned, the hard way, that those who have wronged me once, will do so again, and again, if I let them. Forgiving people has not turned out well for me so far.
Actually I am more open minded than that.
Wait, you believe in reincarnation?
I agree that knowing the reality of hell will motivate you to obey Jesus, but don't think it is a valid draw card because it's extremely inefficient. You have just the right way of making that obvious.
Please yourself.
That's what you look for, that's even the energy that you draw out of them. I state this factually because you even do it to me!
I considered that. Which is why for the past several months, I have been primarily lurking in the Christians Only sections where I have no impact on what people say, and continued my other online searches. Suffice it to say, the results have not altered my opinion with a sunnier outlook on Christians. There was one tiny flame of hope, but it was quickly extinguished.
It's actually positive in my opinion. I see an opportunity to identify their misunderstanding of Christianity and show them the truth in the light of Christ. You may think that is negative, but I think that is only because you have a negative attitude toward Christianity.
I think that you and I have a fundamentally different understanding of what Christianity is. This is evident because I view it as a good thing whereas you don't. I don't believe this is because we are genetically different, I believe it is because of the experiences we have had. Those experiences have turned me into a Christian and you into an atheist. Based on that understanding I cannot rightfully pass judgment upon you saying that you are somehow inferior merely because you believe differently than I do. What do you say to that?
I would say that I have a harshly negative view of modern Christianity, and Christians to be sure. However, I think that Christianity has been perverted so far from what it once was that it's not even worth considering them the same thing. That hell has become the central concept of Christianity, and "the only reason one would believe" demonstrates that to me. I consider that at one time Christianity was not a religion, but a philosophical viewpoint, not of God, but of humanity, and society.
You've done that before and you were wrong. See the mistake you have made is to say that the culture you hate is "my" culture and you even italicized the word "your".
Actually, I meant the collective "your." Not you personally, Christians as a group.
I'll jog your memory, you said "I'm inclined to believe in something its just not your god". You were wrong, the God you want to believe in is the same God as I believe in, but you have not yet overcome the adversary. God is a different entity to him who teaches those to preach hate in the name of Jesus.
I disagree, and here's why: The "God" I'm most inclined to believe in could not, or would not, or should not even have an adversary. Even the concept that this "thing" could have anything that approaches something adversarial just wouldn't fit.
That is very good thinking, to think that nobody is worthy of such a perfect rest. The apostle John wrote this:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
You are wrong though, because Jesus even said in that very quote that the prophets will be there. He even said there would be others, and He was instructing His disciples that they must keep their eyes on the goal. Salvation certainly is possible according to Jesus.
Ah, but as I have recently been reminded, there have been no prophets since Christ, and there will be no more. Salvation is no longer possible for any of us. That was my meaning.