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> The same author who wrote Exodus is the same author who wrote Genesis. Once the Word reveals the meaning of something it doesn’t change the next time you see it.
Well really authorship is immaterial as it was really written by God. It matters little who held the pen. One could point out there were writing styles identifiable in these writers but let's never think they had much if any power of the actual content. And we wouldn't want them to as humans are rather prone to error.
The only issue remaining is correct assessment of its meaning in light of God's NT revelation for the new covenant in Jesus Christ, to which all things pointed.You make a good point about natural consistency throughout the Bible. It wouldn't make much sense to have something highlighted then for God to be OK with us ignoring it for long periods of time. Especially as it was so pronounced at Creation and stated as blessed. In short,
we probably shouldn't ignore what God has blessed!
Remember there was a group that wanted to merge with the Jews in the Old Testament? They even agreed to be circumcised. Then they were slaughtered which caused some concern....Evidence?
Absolutely, all scripture is God-breathed 2 Timothy 3:16. I only mentioned the same author because many think Genesis is off on an island and not connected to the rest of the scripture.> The same author who wrote Exodus is the same author who wrote Genesis. Once the Word reveals the meaning of something it doesn’t change the next time you see it.
Well really authorship is immaterial as it was really written by God. It matters little who held the pen. One could point out there were writing styles identifiable in these writers but let's never think they had much if any power of the actual content. And we wouldn't want them to as humans are rather prone to error.
You make a good point about natural consistency throughout the Bible. It wouldn't make much sense to have something highlighted then for God to be OK with us ignoring it for long periods of time. Especially as it was so pronounced at Creation and stated as blessed. In short, we probably shouldn't ignore what God has blessed!
Okay, refresh my memory regarding where I can find that account in the OT that I may examine it and I will get back to you.Remember there was a group that wanted to merge with the Jews in the Old Testament? They even agreed to be circumcised. Then they were slaughtered which caused some concern....
The point is here was a group of Gentiles that were willing to do something drastic (I think most people would adult circumcision drastic, especially if you're unfamiliar with it), to be better off because of the Jews. All through the Old Testament their skills were admired by others. Some of them no doubt lived with them because of this. Sort of like emigrating to a country you admire today and adapting to its rules that may have been quite different from what you experienced back home. Think of people from Saudi Arabia going to the UK or America for an education. That's quite a culture shock. But the other location had something they wanted, that wasn't available back home. (Besides a semblance of freedom....lol)
> I think about how the earth was "lawless" up until Noah. People were running around, doing whatever. Perhaps God allowed this to show us what happens when there IS no law to govern us...
Good point but why wait so long? That's my point. Over 1600 years between Creation and the flood. That's quite a long teaching time for us "running around, doing whatever".And yes, of course basic things were a given. Like don't slaughter your brother when he [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es you off. Mom and dad might get upset.
In my Bible, there's a footnote regarding this:> We have no way of knowing whether or not Adam and Eve and their descendants practiced adherence to the Sabbath. We assume they did, at least, to a point, but we don't know for certain.
As it was stated so clearly at Creation I think we can presume any believer followed it back then. Basic things like murder and theft would be common sense. How they punished those that transgressed we don't know. But I bet the Sabbath was the first guideline to be ignored as people wandered away from their faith back then.
Why would you think this would be a 'natural reaction' of people to emulate that in the days between Adam and Noah? There was no 'law' to keep the Sabbath back then. In fact, there weren't many laws at all...which is one reason why the people became corrupt!>>> Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."
>>I would think that the natural reaction of people to that would be to emulate that, not to ignore it.
Your response here..LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures, Jesus says God made the Sabbath for mankind. *Mark 2:27. The Greek here is ἄνθρωπος arthropos G444 meaning human beings. God made the Sabbath for mankind on the "seventh day" of the creation week according to Genesis 2:1-3 where God "blessed the seventh day" and set the "seventh day" aside from all the other days of the week as a holy day of rest and as a memorial of the finished work of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth. Now when God made the Sabbath for mankind there was only Adam and Eve who are the parents of all mankind created on the sixth day of the creation week according to Genesis 1:26-31. So if Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind at creation it all starts with Adam and Eve. There was no law at creation because there was no sin at creation when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. Man at this point in time was sinless and in perfect harmony with the creator and walked and talked with God directly. None of the laws came about until after the fall (sin) of mankind because mankind had no knowledge of what sin was because they were sinless and walked in perfect harmony with God. That is why the Sabbath was not a law at creation. It was a gift given by God to mankind who was sinless. So it is presumptuous to think that Gods' people did not have law after the fall until Exodus (see Genesis 26:5). The Sabbath was given after the fall (sin) of mankind when Israel became a nation and was in bondage to the Egyptians for over 400 years. So they would have lost site of many of Gods' law which were given again at Mt Sinai in Exodus 20:1-19 and onward. That said God's people knew abotu the Sabbath even before Mt Sinai (Exodus 16). They had law but perhaps not collective laws as a nation which was given at Exodus because before the written Words of God all God's people had was the spoken Words of God handed down from the parents to the children but Gods' people always had Gods' laws after the fall of mankind before Mt Sinai as it is written that "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." - Genesis 26:5. The Hebrew words used for laws in Genesis 26:5 is תֹּורָה (tôwrâh) torah meaning Gods' laws, instructions, teachings, especially the Decalogue and laws for remission of sins and burnt offerings.
Hello Richard, I do agree with you with what you are saying that God's people would forget His Sabbath. God starts off His 4th commandment telling us to "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep in holy in Exodus 20:8 like he foreknew that everyone would forget it and this is what has exactly happened today. Your questions were indeed answered however. According to the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from, God gave the Sabbath to mankind through Adam and Even in the garden of Eden (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) through the spoken Word of God so it was not 2500 years latter. That is presumption thinking that God made the Sabbath for mankind according to Jesus in *Mark 2:27 and never gave it to man after he made it on the seventh day of the creation week when he blessed "the seventh day" for mankind and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for mankind in Genesis 2:1-3; Genesis 1:26-31. We are also told in the scriptures that Gods' people were already keeping Gods laws before the Exodus in Genesis 26:5. The difference however in the Exodus I would imagine after 400 years of bondage in Egypt would be that many would have been forced to work on the Sabbath so after many generations (400 years) many would have forgot Gods' laws and previously God's people Israel were only a family and not a great nation so the circumstances and dispensation was different requiring a different covenant.Not really as it doesn't address the core point of my question: Why wait so long? It was over 2500 years. A longer time than from our present to Jesus! Also if the Sabbath was so ingrained why even mention it in the 10 Commandments? If it was so part of life it wouldn't need to be. Yet it was itemized as a commandment, not only addressed but more words are spent on the Sabbath commandment than all the others by far. I believe this is God's way of nudging us to remind us that He knew this commandment would be ignored more than any other in the world of the so called believer. And it has been all through history. I bet it didn't take long after Jesus that it gradually got ignored more and more. Probably a few decades. People knowledgeable in Christian history can help us here. Its certainly mentioned all through the New Testament. Doing a word search of it shows it all through. Point that out to people who claim it was done away with at the crucifixion. If it was you wouldn't hear it mentioned after the crucifixion except if it was used historically. Ironically it mentions Mary going to the tomb after the Sabbath to check on Jesus! How about that for a nudge!
There were no laws given directly from God until Exodus.
In my Bible, there's a footnote regarding this:
"The mention of the seventh day, repeated in verse 3, is outside the series of six days and is thus the climax of the account. The focus of the account is God. The text does not actually institute the practice of keeping the Sabbath, for it would have been anachronistic to establish at this point a custom that was distinctively Israelite (Ex 31:13, 16, 17), but it lays the foundation for the later practice." No Israelites. No Sabbath.
God told Abram (before he was Abraham) that Abram's descendants would be oppressed for four hundred years. God waited those four hundred years because the wickedness of the Amorites "was not yet complete" (Gen. 15:16).
So, while God patiently waited for 1600 years between Adam and Noah, the corruption of the people on earth probably wasn't "complete" yet, at the 1200 year mark. Or 1350 year mark. Or 1575 year mark.
But during that time, EVERYONE had a chance to do what was right (such as Noah) instead of what was evil. So that 1600 year 'wait' served a dual purpose; to allow those who were going to do evil, still do evil, and the allow those who would be righteous to continue to be righteous.
Of course, they always had the chance to repent...which they obviously didn't do.
In my Bible, there's a footnote regarding this:
"The mention of the seventh day, repeated in verse 3, is outside the series of six days and is thus the climax of the account. The focus of the account is God. The text does not actually institute the practice of keeping the Sabbath, for it would have been anachronistic to establish at this point a custom that was distinctively Israelite (Ex 31:13, 16, 17), but it lays the foundation for the later practice."
No Israelites. No Sabbath.
Why would you think this would be a 'natural reaction' of people to emulate that in the days between Adam and Noah? There was no 'law' to keep the Sabbath back then. In fact, there weren't many laws at all...which is one reason why the people became corrupt!
Excellent point about being under bondage for 400 years. That's certainly enough time to erode a lot of traditions and guidelines.Your response here..
Hello Richard, I do agree with you with what you are saying that God's people would forget His Sabbath. God starts off His 4th commandment telling us to "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep in holy in Exodus 20:8 like he foreknew that everyone would forget it and this is what has exactly happened today. Your questions were indeed answered however. According to the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from, God gave the Sabbath to mankind through Adam and Even in the garden of Eden (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) through the spoken Word of God so it was not 2500 years latter. That is presumption thinking that God made the Sabbath for mankind according to Jesus in *Mark 2:27 and never gave it to man after he made it on the seventh day of the creation week when he blessed "the seventh day" for mankind and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for mankind in Genesis 2:1-3 after he rested from all His works of creation when mankind was made on the sixth day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31. We are also told in the scriptures that Gods' people were already keeping Gods laws before the Exodus in Genesis 26:5. The difference however in the Exodus I would imagine after 400 years of bondage in Egypt would be that many would have been forced to work on the Sabbath so after many generations (400 years) many would have forgot Gods' laws and previously God's people Israel were only a family and not a great nation so the circumstances and dispensation was different requiring a different covenant.
Take Care.
Yet we don't see it implemented into law until Exodus, the 10 Commandments. Or was it assumed before Exodus and done automatically by God fearing people back then? I found it odd to do a word search for sabbath in Genesis and find nothing.
Yet we don't see it implemented into law until Exodus, the 10 Commandments. Or was it assumed before Exodus and done automatically by God fearing people back then? I found it odd to do a word search for sabbath in Genesis and find nothing.
The thing is, that you asked, "Why did it take so long?" And THAT was what I was responding to.I think it would be natural because God did it and set an example. Plus it feels good. It feels natural. And it works very, very well. Those are some very good reasons.
The Didache Bible. Catholic. Yeah, yeah...I can already see tomatoes being thrown at meI'm curious what Bible you are using?
The 4th commandment refers back to creation .... Remember ..... evidentially had been mostly forgotten that's why the reminder.
The important thing to notice is this: no commandment is made in this text. The seventh day is not even called the Sabbath. But the seventh day is differentiated and set apart (sanctified) from the other six creation days.
- God finished His work of creating the universe.
- God rested on the seventh day because His creation work was finished.
- God blessed and sanctified the seventh day because on it He rested.
It is assigned a special significance (blessing) by God, based on the fact that it was the day on which God rested. All subsequent commands to keep the Sabbath assume that this sanctity of the seventh day has already been established (here, at creation) by God.
It pointing to that full-time salvation rest in his one and only beloved Son, where we would rest from our own work to save, and in his coming and exceedingly costly work which saves.Thus, the Israelites are not commanded to sanctify the Sabbath, but to conduct themselves in such a way as not to profane it (Exodus 31:14; Isaiah 56:2), because it has already been declared holy (by God at creation). The declaration of its sanctity is found in Genesis chapter 2:1-3. God’s act of resting and then of sanctifying the seventh day is the basis for all subsequent commands related to the Sabbath. Israel was to treat the seventh day as holy because God had done so, and had declared it so, from creation.
It pointing to that full-time salvation rest in his one and only beloved Son, where we would rest from our own work to save, and in his coming and exceedingly costly work which saves.
Well, that's for sure not true. . .Well that claim is not true at all.
How can God's Sabbath be a shadow of anything when it points backwards
Your claims are not true and your post is non-responsive and does not answer any of the questions in the post you are quoting from that are in disagreement with you - (see also Hebrews 3:8-19 to Hebrews 4:1-11). Again, how can God's Sabbath be a shadow law of anything when it points backwards as a "memorial" (Remember the Sabbath day - Exodus 20:8) to the finished work of creation *Exodus 20:11 and not forward to things to come? Think it through. There was no sin and no plan of salvation given to mankind because there was no sin and no "shadow laws" that point forward to the coming of a Savior from sin because there was no sin *Genesis 2:1-3? There was only sinless Adam and Eve when God made the Sabbath for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3 who were without sin and in no need of shadow laws of things to come pointing to the promised Savior from sin because the Sabbath was made when mankind was sinless. The Mosaic "shadow laws" were only given after the fall (sin) of mankind not before when the Sabbath was made. Therefore it is impossible for Gods' Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything because it points backwards and not forwards to things to come. Your post and claims here are not biblical or supported in scripture. Your mixing up God's Mosaic "shadow laws" given after the fall of mankind with God's eternal laws that in the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.God's Sabbath rest is full-time, it doesn't point backwards, it continues as we speak, it is current and at present, it is his own full-time rest which we enter when we enter salvation rest in Jesus Christ, to which it has pointed from the creation of the world (Hebrews 3:7-4:11).
Hebrews 3:7-4:11 disagrees with you.Your claims are not true and your post is non-responsive and does not answer any of the questions in the post you are quoting from that are in disagreement with you - (see also Hebrews 3:8-19 to Hebrews 4:1-11). Again, how can God's Sabbath be a shadow law of anything when it points backwards as a "memorial" (Remember the Sabbath day - Exodus 20:8) to the finished work of creation *Exodus 20:11 and not forward to things to come? Think it through. There was no sin and no plan of salvation given to mankind because there was no sin and no "shadow laws" that point forward to the coming of a Savior from sin because there was no sin *Genesis 2:1-3? There was only sinless Adam and Eve when God made the Sabbath for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3 who were without sin and in no need of shadow laws of things to come pointing to the promised Savior from sin because the Sabbath was made when mankind was sinless. The Mosaic "shadow laws" were only given after the fall (sin) of mankind not before when the Sabbath was made. Therefore it is impossible for Gods' Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything because it points backwards and not forwards to things to come. Your post and claims here are not biblical or supported in scripture. Your mixing up God's Mosaic "shadow laws" given after the fall of mankind with God's eternal laws that in the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.
Actually no. I quoted Hebrews 3:8-19 to Hebrews 4:1-11 to show that these scripture disagree with you. Happy to discuss and show why they disagree with you in detail if your interested. Do you know why these scriptures disagree with you? Once again your post here is non-responsive and does not answer a single question in the post you are quoting from that are in disagreement with you. Again, how can God's Sabbath be a shadow law of anything when it points backwards as a "memorial" (Remember the Sabbath day - Exodus 20:8) to the finished work of creation *Exodus 20:11 and not forward to things to come? Think it through. There was no sin and no plan of salvation given to mankind because there was no sin and no "shadow laws" that point forward to the coming of a Savior from sin because there was no sin *Genesis 2:1-3? Your post and claims here are not biblical or supported in scripture. Your mixing up God's Mosaic "shadow laws" given after the fall of mankind with God's eternal laws that in the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.Hebrews 3:7-4:11 disagrees with you.
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