Why was the cross necessary?

honey badger said:

i hear him

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Well Jesus spoke to people in a way they could understand. If you hear HIm and seek to follow HIm- do the same! We are to share all we learn from th emaster, to withhold it is sin!

Further to 'Ugh.....'.

When it comes to ransom, who was it given to? When the Hebrew people, or groups within, found themselves captive or enslaved, it was common practice to collect money to pay a ransom (seek redemption) to free the captives or slaves, or acts of redemption as they were called, were performed for such a result. Jesus sacrificed Himself as an act of redemption. Who was it paid to but the captors. So if a ransom was paid on the cross, it was paid according to human tradition, to our captor, the Adversary, in order to free us and give us entrance to the Kingdom. Did God die to pay off the Adversary? Any wonder Jesus taught us to repent, to chose the Adversary's confinement and ways or the Kingdom and it's ways, then act accordingly. If the ransom was paid we still had to chose whether to remain or become free and verify that choice by our actions.

nolidad said:

Well Jesus spoke to people in a way they could understand. If you hear HIm and seek to follow HIm- do the same! We are to share all we learn from th emaster, to withhold it is sin!

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And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest, it is in parables, so that, 'Seeing, they may not see; and hearing, they may not understand.'

to understand the mysteries of the kingdom one has to keep their eye single or said another way one must pick up their cross which is to keep your women silent or as Jesus said to the young man ( same truth) “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

if you want to understand the mystery hidden within the books start by unlearning what you have learned

nolidad said:

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but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Scott Husted said:

The Lamb ...

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being a picture of innocents ...

nolidad said:

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My post #28 & #43 follow this same pattern of thinking in the first portion of my last reply, no pundit intended.

honey badger said:

And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest, it is in parables, so that, 'Seeing, they may not see; and hearing, they may not understand.'

to understand the mysteries of the kingdom one has to keep their eye single or said another way one must pick up their cross which is to keep your women silent or as Jesus said to the young man ( same truth) “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

if you want to understand the mystery hidden within the books start by unlearning what you have learned

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honey badger said:

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

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Well I have learned that after over 45 years of walking with the Lord, I know of no hidden mystical meanings hiding behind the plain teachings of Scripture.

Hundreds have done this, all claiming special revelation, all claiming a walk with god and all disagreeing with one another!

The mysteries of teh kingdom are found in the parables, unless you wish to add your meanings to teh scores of others who claim special knowledge.

By the way have you sold everything you own, given it to the poor and are folowing Jesus?

nolidad said:

Well I have learned that after over 45 years of walking with the Lord, I know of no hidden mystical meanings hiding behind the plain teachings of Scripture.

The mysteries of teh kingdom are found in the parables, unless you wish to add your meanings to teh scores of others who claim special knowledge.

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Paul did...

Scott Husted said:

Paul did...

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Paul was an apotle and master builder fo the church and given th edoctrines for the church to live by.

YOu are not!

nolidad said:

Paul was an apotle and master builder fo the church and given th edoctrines for the church to live by.

YOu are not!

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Nevertheless he did ...

nolidad said:

Paul was an apotle and master builder fo the church and given th edoctrines for the church to live by.

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Self proclaimed if we want to get technical. Jesus Himself taught the sole doctrine that the church would live by, that the rock upon which it would be built was the truth from the Father, not from man.

Scott Husted said:

Nevertheless he did ...

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And He spoke iin a way the people he was addressing could understand!

And you are not an apostle and builder of the church! You are like me, just part of teh building.

Hmmm! said:

Why was the cross necessary?

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Sin is a big deal & carries a big MUST BE PAID price.

Rom 6:23 the wage (cost/price) for sin is death.

The 1st animal sacrifice for sin happen in the garden of Eden. Where Adam & Eve CHOOSE to SIN/transgress heavenly law. Their sin/transgression had to be paid for.

God could execute sins MUST/JUST penalty "DEATH" onto them. He choose to make atonement/pay sins required wage: BLOOD & DEATH via an animal sacrifice.

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
(NOTE: Animals died to cover/clothe/pay sins just/must required wage/pentley "DEATH")

Animal sacrifices (innocent dying in place guilty) contuinue for millenia. Until the ultimate "Once & For All" innoncent sinless sacrifice is offered. The Eternal Son of God, Jesus the Christ offers Himself & pays for Adams caused crisis!

BTW, animal sacrifices only covered for 1 year & couldn't remove sin.

Cain & Abel
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Noah
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Abraham
Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Covenant at Sinai
And there were many animal sacrifices (millions?) offered for sin under the Covenant of Sinai. Until the ultimate "Once & For All" innocent sinless sacrifice is offered, the Eternal Son of God, Jesus the Christ! Christ's willful, sinless sin offering, when appropriated/seized, doesn't only cover, it TAKES AWAY/REMOVES sin:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, "which taketh away the sin of the world".

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and "washed us from our sins in his own blood",

Romans 3:23 for "all" have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Therefore, we need to pay-up or get under Christ's sin payment. Scripture teaches how to do this:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Amen!

David
2 Samuel 6:13 When those who were carrying the ark of the Lord had taken SIX STEPS, he SACRIFICED a BULL and a FATTENED CALF.
(NOTE: Every 6 steps = 2 animal sacrifices. Several search attempts (all different) suggest this trip was between 7-10 miles. Leaving a blood trail of 30k sacrifices? No wonder David dances when the trip is over)

timothyu said:

Self proclaimed if we want to get technical. Jesus Himself taught the sole doctrine that the church would live by, that the rock upon which it would be built was the truth from the Father, not from man.

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No the rock of Jesus being Messiah was where Jesus would build the church!

Then He commissioned the twelve and then Paul (and the original 11 confirmed His Apostleship)

If you do not think Paul was chosen by god to be an apostle, then tear his epistles out of the Bible! Those are the constitution of the gentile wing of thechurch to live by!

nolidad said:

No the rock of Jesus being Messiah was where Jesus would build the church!

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Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The truth from the Father, not man.

nolidad said:

And He spoke iin a way the people he was addressing could understand!

And you are not an apostle and builder of the church! You are like me, just part of teh building.

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Not according to Peter ...

timothyu said:

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The truth from the Father, not man.

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Yup the Father showed Peter that Jesus was Messiah! Just like Jesus spent four years teaching Paul in the
desert the truths that were to be passed down to all generations!

Both got the revelation from God and we believe them because God gives us the faith to see and believe!

Understanding mentaaly the words written is something the most wicked can do. But believing them and being determined to live them is what God gives His children. There is no secret meanings behind the plain teachings of the NT. Same with the OT! We may glean many personal applications from what was written down under the Inspiration of God, but there are no hidden meanings between the lines.

Scott Husted said:

Not according to Peter ...

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YOu are not that ignorant or naive.

We are all apostolos in that we are all sent!

But only 14 ever held the office of Apostolos as master builders of teh church and you nor I are one of them! But I think you knew that and are just being contentious,

nolidad said:

We may glean many personal applications from what was written down under the Inspiration of God, but there are no hidden meanings between the lines.

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Yet the church prefers we follow it's doctrines.

nolidad said:

But only 14 ever held the office of Apostolos as master builders of teh church

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Especially when the gentile church needed one of it's own to follow rather than the other way around.