Why was the cross necessary?

nolidad · Jul 27, 2020

timothyu said:
They didn't see him as that and they kinda thought by his words he disagreed with Peter on things, so one could assume he was pro gentile to them. Did anyone ever figure out if instead of stoning the followers as Saul, he ,diverted them away from the Temple to a new religion to keep the Temple 'pure', because basically down the line that is what happened even if it was not Paul's intention.?

Of course most of the churches he planted saw him as Jewish! Why would you say otherwise? He was not ashamed of his heritage as he write in several epistles.

There is nothing written that showed Paul disagreed with Peter. He rebuked him for bad conduct, but there is no record of Paul disagreeing with Peter.

I can't read minds ( neither should you) so assuming gentiles considered Paul pro gentile is a fools errand! Many of these people had little knowledge of Jews and Judiasm, other than they lived in some of their cities.

As to your last thought? You are speculating. If you believe this then show the biblical evidence that gives this hypothesis some biblical credence.

Hmm · Jul 27, 2020

bling said:
You personally could have kept Christ from going to the cross, so you personally and individually are responsible for Christ going to the cross. How do you feel about that?

Awful. I remember someone saying that Christ would still have gone to the cross for me even if I was the only person in the world which also brought home the very personal aspect of His sacrifice.

bling said:
. I could also use prays to say the right thing, when you do not hear back for a week you do not know if what you said was taken right.

You've got them. I don't think I'm doing much better in the promptness of my own replies! Is the tardiness of their replies because of a lack of access to email or because they can't meet up very often to discuss what you say because of a need for secrecy?

honey badger · Jul 27, 2020

nolidad said:
As they have with most believers and allegedly the cults and the men and women I listed. What makes your mystical interpretations any more right than the people I listed? They declare the Bible isa singular cohesive narrative as well. But their mystical interpretations are different than yours. So why are you right and they wrong????

well i am not at all familiar with any of those you have mentioned, so can you point out exactly where they have all made the statement that the bible is a singular cohesive narrative, one example will suffice

nolidad · Jul 27, 2020

honey badger said:
well i am not at all familiar with any of those you have mentioned, so can you point out exactly where they have all made the statement that the bible is a singular cohesive narrative, one example will suffice

Google is your firend!

But once again what makes your mystical interpretations better than theirs???

I believe th eBible is a singular cohesive whole and so far I have not found much in your wiritngs that I would say is cohesive. YOu quote a verse and then stay silent!

I agree with the verse, but as to teh why you quote it remains a mystery.

honey badger · Jul 27, 2020

nolidad said:
Google is your firend!

But once again what makes your mystical interpretations better than theirs???

I believe th eBible is a singular cohesive whole and so far I have not found much in your wiritngs that I would say is cohesive. YOu quote a verse and then stay silent!

I agree with the verse, but as to teh why you quote it remains a mystery.

so you are just making stuff up then, you have never even heard such a statement before, have you ...

timothyu · Jul 27, 2020

nolidad said:
Well my church has rules for organization, membership and stuff like that, but the rules we have for conducting ourself as a local assembly of believers are all biblically based.

So you live communally and help all those in need as the biblical Way did or perhaps the gentiles who home churched? As for conduct you always put the will of the Father ahead of mankind's will and you love all as self, putting others before self?

timothyu · Jul 27, 2020

nolidad said:
Many of these people had little knowledge of Jews and Judiasm, other than they lived in some of their cities.

nolidad said:
ou are speculating. If you believe this then show the biblical evidence that gives this hypothesis some biblical credence.

The point is they built the religion in their own image, rejecting much of the Jewish tradition that Jesus followed.

Scott Husted · Jul 27, 2020

nolidad said:
As long as your reasonings do not contradict the revealed will of God called the Bible! the reason why Peter said Pauls words were hard to be understood is not because there is some sub-mystical meaning underneath the clear texts of the words written, but simply because Jesus + 0 is hard for the natural mind to accept!

There was a time to which he said doubtless there would be more of where words were insufficient. Call it what you will ... but to those who experience it it is not mumbo jumbo ...

honey badger · Jul 28, 2020

Scott Husted said:
There was a time to which he said doubtless there would be more of where words were insufficient. Call it what you will ... but to those who experience it it is not mumbo jumbo ...

when we measure the Word of God the Word of God becomes measured back to us ..., but for the sake of multiplication the Truth/lamb had to be crucified/slain from the foundation of the world, which Jesus having been lifted up ( hung on a tree) became in picture this serpent on a pole ...

when we measure Truth it becomes an idol we follow after ....

nolidad · Jul 28, 2020

honey badger said:
so you are just making stuff up then, you have never even heard such a statement before, have you ...

In the exactr word for word phrase you said? NO! But they all claim to have had what you claim to have.

nolidad · Jul 28, 2020

timothyu said:
So you live communally and help all those in need as the biblical Way did or perhaps the gentiles who home churched? As for conduct you always put the will of the Father ahead of mankind's will and you love all as self, putting others before self?

Like all other believers; not perfectly.

nolidad · Jul 28, 2020

timothyu said:
The point is they built the religion in their own image, rejecting much of the Jewish tradition that Jesus followed.

Well unless we have evidence to the contrary, we must believe that the Apostles built the church on the foundation of Jesus as they were instructed by Jesus to do so!

Teh Church of today generally speaking in the sense of the visible church is far removed from the church laid down by Paul!

bling · Jul 28, 2020

Hmmm! said:
You've got them. I don't think I'm doing much better in the promptness of my own replies! Is the tardiness of their replies because of a lack of access to email or because they can't meet up very often to discuss what you say because of a need for secrecy?

Security, is the main issue. I hear through a friend in the USA, usually they got the message, but wait. They do work long hours in excellent jobs, but like I suggested to one to just read the first chapter of Luke and this busy Doctor read the whole book of Luke and came up with lots of questions.

Hmm · Jul 30, 2020

Ah, so they are are very much like the kids in own society then! It's great that you are giving them a personal perspective from your own experience as well as books. Do they ever say that they feel they are being guided in their realtive isolation by the Holy Spirit as well?

bling · Jul 31, 2020

Hmmm! said:
Ah, so they are are very much like the kids in own society then! It's great that you are giving them a personal perspective from your own experience as well as books. Do they ever say that they feel they are being guided in their realtive isolation by the Holy Spirit as well?

Funny you should bring that up. We had a lengthy discussion with one of my Communist Chinese students this week on the Holy Spirit's guidance. The student did feel sometimes he was let by the Spirit, but asked me how he could know for certain the Spirit is the one leading him in one direction over another direction and not just his personal desires and wanting the Spirit to lead him one way. I would like your help in addressing that answer, since it is still open for discussion?

PS I also forgot to say the length between our emails is due in part to some on my students having a hard time with English. My Doctor friend is very smart and can read the whole book of Luke, develop great questions and really meditate on it, but that is all in Chinese. Putting his questions in English is time consuming and he gets little help. He also has to read my English answers.

Hmm · Jul 31, 2020

bling said:
Funny you should bring that up. We had a lengthy discussion with one of my Communist Chinese students this week on the Holy Spirit's guidance. The student did feel sometimes he was let by the Spirit, but asked me how he could know for certain the Spirit is the one leading him in one direction over another direction and not just his personal desires and wanting the Spirit to lead him one way. I would like your help in addressing that answer, since it is still open for discussion?

It's a good question. I know the Bible applies the words "Counselor" and "Comforter" to the Holy Spirit. To me, a good counselor is someone who doesn't give orders or even direct advice. Instead, they try to help the person they're counselling kind of summon up a response themselves - it's their life after all.

I don't pray as often as I should but I've never had an epiphany or anything particularly dramatic giving me an answer or telling what to do or say. But often I'll get a new idea or an answer in a quieter way. I guess by definition the Holy Spirit works invisibly and without much notice. And as a Comforter it would work in a way that's appropriate to the individual.

I don't know of any surefire way of discerning God's will in advance. I think most of the time all we can do is make a reasonable stab at what we think that is. When I look back at things though it often seems that God was directing my life, for example in sending someone into my life or in helping me make a good decision, when i never felt that at the time.

bling · Jul 31, 2020

Hmmm! said:
It's a good question. I know the Bible applies the words "Counselor" and "Comforter" to the Holy Spirit. To me, a good counselor is someone who doesn't give orders or even direct advice. Instead, they try to help the person they're counselling kind of summon up a response themselves - it's their life after all.

I don't pray as often as I should but I've never had an epiphany or anything particularly dramatic giving me an answer or telling what to do or say. But often I'll get a new idea or an answer in a quieter way. I guess by definition the Holy Spirit works invisibly and without much notice. And as a Comforter it would work in a way that's appropriate to the individual.

I don't know of any surefire way of discerning God's will in advance. I think most of the time all we can do is make a reasonable stab at what we think that is. When I look back at things though it often seems that God was directing my life, for example in sending someone into my life or in helping me make a good decision, when i never felt that at the time.

I don’t know if your answer is good or bad, but it is very similar to my answer. Hindsight is 20/20 and that is often the way I know when I was quenching the Spirit. I like the way you presented the Spirit as a counselor and comforter and not a guide for the blind. Yes, it is our life and we can choose. A good counselor will even allow you to make none life threating mistakes, so you can learn from them and be more thoughtful in the future, knowing the Spirit is not going to always stop you.

I have been around people much more intoned to the Spirit, following a path which scared me, yet they came through stronger each time. They were like a modern-day Paul.

How one can we become with the Spirit/ Christ/ God, because Jesus prayed for us to be one as He is one with God and I think He was talking about while we are still on earth?

Hmm · Jul 31, 2020

bling said:
How one can we become with the Spirit/ Christ/ God, because Jesus prayed for us to be one as He is one with God and I think He was talking about while we are still on earth?

My answer would be that Jesus came to show us what God is like and also what we can be be like, as his children, and I think we can be as one with him in that context, as part of his family. Like with the prodigal son, God welcomes us with all our faults into his family with his arms outstretched. And the Holy Spirit gradually transforms us to be someone more like Jesus, and we know what that should be like because in the Gospels we see him comforting the widow, healing the sick and serving the needy.

I don't know if we can ever feel completely at one with God in this world though. I think the beauty of the natural world and of art and science, and the examples we see of love, compassion, generosity, justice and forgiveness, including as shown by Jesus on the Gospels, are reflections of God in which these qualities are perfectly embodied but while we're here in this world we will always feel a lack of completion.

bling · Aug 1, 2020

Hmmm! said:
My answer would be that Jesus came to show us what God is like and also what we can be be like, as his children, and I think we can be as one with him in that context, as part of his family. Like with the prodigal son, God welcomes us with all our faults into his family with his arms outstretched. And the Holy Spirit gradually transforms us to be someone more like Jesus, and we know what that should be like because in the Gospels we see him comforting the widow, healing the sick and serving the needy.

I don't know if we can ever feel completely at one with God in this world though. I think the beauty of the natural world and of art and science, and the examples we see of love, compassion, generosity, justice and forgiveness, including as shown by Jesus on the Gospels, are reflections of God in which these qualities are perfectly embodied but while we're here in this world we will always feel a lack of completion.

I agree for the most part, but I always underestimate the power of the Spirit. People have come along side me and blown my meeker thoughts away. They have been so Christ like and treated like Christ was treated by wicked people around them (this I saw with Christians in prison and those I know from afar in Iran and China).

Hmm · Aug 1, 2020

By "meeker thoughts" do you mean the feeling of not being fully at one with God?

Why was the cross necessary?

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