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if naturalism is true then nothing we do as humans is important, has any meaning, any significance. etc. etc.
Read Alex Rosenberg
puposefulness is a property of created entities.
Since God is not a created entity, purposefulness cannot be said to be a property belonging to Him.
puposefulness is a property of created entities.
Since God is not a created entity, purposefulness cannot be said to be a property belonging to Him.
Is someone channeling WLC? Naturalism is not a truth statement.if naturalism is true
Of course they do. Why else get out of bed in the morning?then nothing we do as humans is important, has any meaning, any significance. etc. etc.
Why?Read Alex Rosenberg
To be honest with you, I never find that sort of thing compelling either. It's a simplistic solution to interesting problems. However, what I feel about it doesn't change the fact that if there is a God, there are a lot of things that do and do not apply to him because he is God.
I don't really view purpose as an imposition by an external force. I suppose that's true in a sense, but if that's true it's also true that we, ourselves, are the imposition by an external force.
We are who we are because of external forces, and who we are is a question purpose tries to answer. If an external force intentionally made us to be who we are, then that's who we are. If an external force arbitrarily made us to be who we are, then who we are is arbitrary.
I thought that's what happens.
if naturalism is true then nothing we do as humans is important, has any meaning, any significance. etc. etc.
Read Alex Rosenberg
Purposefulness is a property of an entity that pursues goals.puposefulness is a property of created entities.
So having no purpose (whatever it is that you mean when saying it) is not a problem, unless you believe you are created, in the first place.Since God is not a created entity, purposefulness cannot be said to be a property belonging to Him.
Your statement is incomplete:if naturalism is true then nothing we do as humans is important, has any meaning, any significance. etc. etc.
puposefulness is a property of created entities.
Since God is not a created entity, purposefulness cannot be said to be a property belonging to Him.
Purposefulness is a property of an entity that pursues goals.
Anyway, in the end your whole approach turns out to be circular - as expected. Why again should we believe that there´s a God? Because without a God our existence would have no God-given purpose. And why again would we need to believe we have a God-given purpose?
So having no purpose (whatever it is that you mean when saying it) is not a problem, unless you believe you are created, in the first place.
Yeah, I don´t understand what´s so great about the idea of being a tool (especially not when the purpose for which the tool is created is allegedly beyond my understanding) - rather than being an end in itself.What if God creates whimsically, without any regard for the ultimate fate or purpose of the things he creates? The concept of "God-given purpose" presumes a particular kind of God; namely, one who creates things with a purpose.
It is trivially true that, without such a God, there is no God-given purpose. But should we really pin the value of all human existence down to God-given purpose anyway? That seems like a recipe for disappointment and nihilism.
Yeah, I don´t understand what´s so great about the idea of being a tool (especially not when the purpose for which the tool is created is allegedly beyond my understanding) - rather than being an end in itself.
Yes, and something cannot give something one does not have. God can't endow purpose (at least, no more so than a man can) because purpose is a quality he does not have.
God is the Greatest Conceivable Being.
How can you possibly derive meaning from existence unless you pretend that an invisible cosmic wizard has dictated the meaning for you?
-What this line of apologetics sounds like to me, and any person with basic reasoning skills.
I am conceiving of a being that doesn't require his believers to construct extremely crappy arguments on his behalf.
There. I've just conceived of a being greater than your god.
Your statement is incomplete:
If naturalism is true then nothing we do as humans is important, has any meaning, any significance to a God.
(Which, obviously, is no problem when you don´t believe there´s a God, to begin with.)
Apart from the fact that an argument from consequence is fallacious, anyway.
Only if your silently add "to a God". It can be important, have meaning and significance to everyone else.Not to a God.
Rather, actually.
If naturalism is true then nothing we do as humans is actually important, has any meaning, or any significance.
In reality what I do is important, meaningful and significant to myself and the people around me, and what they do is important, meaningful and significant to me. That´s reality, and that´s what matters in reality. Thinking up a beyond-entity to whom it is important, significant and meaningful - while it may add another potential instance of "meaning"/"significance"/"importance" -doesn´t change anything about this reality. Neither the existence nor the non-existence of such an entity would cange anything about it.I am talking about reality.
Yes, I am - and it´s not what you are trying to establish as the consequences.If God does not exist, then what follows, you seem to be aware of the implications.
The God I speak of does not require His believers to construct extremely crappy arguments on His behalf.
So the God I speak of is the same one you speak of i.e. the Greatest Conceivable Being.
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