Why isn't Eve made together with Adam?

juvenissun · Aug 15, 2008

This link http://fishdontwalk.com/ made me realize this question:

Animals were made in pairs so they could reproduce. For example, two chicken were made on day 5. But Adam is made alone and it remains that way for a while. And, strange enough, the reason that Eve is made is apparently not emphasized on reproduction.

First, I do not understand why. Second, it is possible that Adam and Eve may not have children in the Garden, because it is not the purpose of the existence of Eve.

Unless, animals do not reproduce either in the Garden, and they do not die before the fall.

** Sorry, I miss typed the title. It should be "Why isn't ..." **

lemmings · Aug 15, 2008

Really now, what do you think multiply means in Genesis? Are the animals and humans doing math or mating?

Mallon · Aug 15, 2008

It's a plot device. Genesis is not a record of historical events, but a story about man's relationship with God and one another.

juvenissun · Aug 15, 2008

Mallon said:
It's a plot device. Genesis is not a record of historical events, but a story about man's relationship with God and one another.

So, what is the primary (and the secondary) duty of a woman toward a man according to the creation "story"?

Mallon · Aug 15, 2008

juvenissun said:
So, what is the primary (and the secondary) duty of a woman toward a man according to the creation "story"?

The very same you would read from the story if it were history.

Assyrian · Aug 16, 2008

Don't forget Adam was God's name for the people he created both male and female.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

Assyrian said:
Don't forget Adam was God's name for the people he created both male and female.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Well, this is not the point.

My question is that Eve was not in God's picture when Adam is made. Why? Would the creation of Adam alone satisfies God's purpose? Why is it not good for Adam to live alone? Animals are made in pairs (assume this is right) because God wants them to populate. Then why not human at the moment of Adam's creation?

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

Mallon said:
The very same you would read from the story if it were history.

You don't want to talk to much. Let me finish it for you:

According to the meaning of Genesis, the first duty of a woman (to a man) is to be a companion and a help to man. The second duty is not clear, but it could include the giving birth of offsprings.

As a result, not be able to give birth by a wife should NOT be an excuse of divorce. And a woman should not feel shame if she is sterile.

Furthermore, this concept WILL APPLY in the Heaven, where, I think a woman would still keep her sex identify (just like what it was in the Garden), but the function of reproduction is not needed (disabled?).

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

lemmings said:
Really now, what do you think multiply means in Genesis? Are the animals and humans doing math or mating?

Hard question. Thanks.

I think the time frames of Genensis 1, 2, 3, and 5 are not in sequence, but are overlapping. But, other than that, I don't have an answer. For example, Gen 2 could be an elaboration of Gen 1:27 ( ..."male and female created He them"). Another example: what is the time frame for the Day 5 and Day 6 of creation and the creation of the Garden of Eden? Is the Garden same as the "earth" in Gen 1:28 (has the word "multiply")? Or is verse 28 really applied to the time AFTER the fall (I don't like this idea)?

Assyrian · Aug 16, 2008

juvenissun said:
Don't forget Adam was God's name for the people he created both male and female.
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Click to expand...

Well, this is not the point.

My question is that Eve was not in God's picture when Adam is made. Why? Would the creation of Adam alone satisfies God's purpose? Why is it not good for Adam to live alone? Animals are made in pairs (assume this is right) because God wants them to populate. Then why not human at the moment of Adam's creation?

You get the same thing in Gen 1 Adam means the human race God created, male and female. Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make Adam in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens... If Adam is God's name for the human race male and female, then the purpose of multiplying and filling the earth is the from the beginning of his creation of the human race.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

Assyrian said:
You get the same thing in Gen 1 Adam means the human race God created, male and female. Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make Adam in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens... If Adam is God's name for the human race male and female, then the purpose of multiplying and filling the earth is the from the beginning of his creation of the human race.

Are you saying: multiply and fill "the Garden"? That does not sound right unless the Garden IS the earth, which does not sound right either.

Assyrian · Aug 16, 2008

According to Gen 2 the garden was 'east of Eden' and the river flowed out of Eden before it seperated in four rivers flowing around Assyrian Ethiopia etc. If you take chapter two literally the garden is a limited region, but in God's command to Adam in chapter 1, he told them to fill the earth. Of course I take Gen 2 as a parable so there is no contradiction with chapter 1. The garden, paradise, is spiritual a relationship with God the thief on the cross entered into with Jesus Christ they day they were crucified.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

Assyrian said:
According to Gen 2 the garden was 'east of Eden' and the river flowed out of Eden before it seperated in four rivers flowing around Assyrian Ethiopia etc. If you take chapter two literally the garden is a limited region, but in God's command to Adam in chapter 1, he told them to fill the earth. Of course I take Gen 2 as a parable so there is no contradiction with chapter 1. The garden, paradise, is spiritual a relationship with God the thief on the cross entered into with Jesus Christ they day they were crucified.

Well, you equated "the Garden" with "the earth", that solves one problem, but should bring a bigger problem. When was the earth as perfect as the description of the Garden? And when did the earth become so small so it is only covered by two median-size rivers? I know, the metaphor. But, it is out of proportion.

Assyrian · Aug 16, 2008

Where did I equate the garden and the earth?

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

Assyrian said:
According to Gen 2 the garden was 'east of Eden' and the river flowed out of Eden before it seperated in four rivers flowing around Assyrian Ethiopia etc. If you take chapter two literally the garden is a limited region, but in God's command to Adam in chapter 1, he told them to fill the earth. Of course I take Gen 2 as a parable so there is no contradiction with chapter 1. The garden, paradise, is spiritual a relationship with God the thief on the cross entered into with Jesus Christ they day they were crucified.

Sorry, misunderstanding.

So the whole description of the Garden (Gen 2) is taken as a parable. But, a parable of what? If the Garden IS the Paradise, then there is no need for the parable. If the Garden is the parable of the earth (not equating), then what is the purpose of this parable? Why is this parable needed?

My way of getting around it this: The Garden is the Garden. The Garden may be the Paradise (not an issue here). The earth is the earth. There is no need for a parable and the Garden is NOT the earth. The apparent conflict reflects the offset of TIME. Put the conflicts into different time frame, then there will be no conflict. (although there are other problems).

Do not lose the focus: we are talking about if giving birth is the prime reason for the creation of Eve. My opinion is no. So Adam and Eve may not give any birth in the Garden because it is not a necessary function of human there.

Assyrian · Aug 16, 2008

Yet the command to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth in Gen 1:28 predates the fall, it comes before Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.

But Gen 2 does show that men and women are meant for much more than simply reproduction, it shows us Gods plan for a wife to be a help meet for her husband and gives us beautiful allegorical image of the union and unity of man and wife with Eve being taken from Adam's rib and being bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. The account itself draws the allegorical conclusion that this is about every man leaving his parents and being united one flesh with his wife. So in a way I agree with you the story of Adam and Eve does emphasis the importance of other aspects of marriage rather than just reproduction, but not by excluding reproduction, that command was there from the beginning too, but we see it in chapter 1 instead.

busterdog · Aug 16, 2008

juvenissun said:
This link http://fishdontwalk.com/ made me realize this question:

Animals were made in pairs so they could reproduce. For example, two chicken were made on day 5. But Adam is made alone and it remains that way for a while. And, strange enough, the reason that Eve is made is apparently not emphasized on reproduction.

First, I do not understand why. Second, it is possible that Adam and Eve may not have children in the Garden, because it is not the purpose of the existence of Eve.

Unless, animals do not reproduce either in the Garden, and they do not die before the fall.

** Sorry, I miss typed the title. It should be "Why isn't ..." **

It sort of sounds like a demonstration of certain attributes of God and his grace, so it sounds like a mere "story." Talking about certain realties of God have that effect. But, any outworking of the identity of God will sound less like history and more like a story.

Paul was pretty clear about the place of women and why -- post fall. (And its not like its an inferior to the deal men, which was not exactly the glorification of men.) Post redemption, there would appear to be equality.

Pre-fall, having been made in the image of God, unlike animals, man was more or less self-sufficient.

There really wasnt much of any need for woman frankly. The power and authority of Adam was sufficient, just as God was sufficient unto himself in such (but not all) matters. That is what Gen.1 is saying. Woman was completely unnecessary - except that God is love, and for God to be who God is, it was necessary for there to be an "other" to receive love. Actually, woman stood in a similar relationship to Adam as that of Adam to God. The text makes that point by making Eve unique of all creatures -- a special creature unlike any other. No other was made in such ways and no other was made for the purposes of love only.

Otherwise, male and female animals were a functional unit and created as such. Functionally, they would appear necessary one to another. Eve was not part of a functional unit, but was an act of pure love.

The position of the Church is similar. The Church is a work of grace freely given, arriving at the end of history and mysteriously.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2008

busterdog said:
There really wasnt much of any need for woman frankly. The power and authority of Adam was sufficient, just as God was sufficient unto himself in such (but not all) matters. That is what Gen.1 is saying. Woman was completely unnecessary - except that God is love, and for God to be who God is, it was necessary for there to be an "other" to receive love. Actually, woman stood in a similar relationship to Adam as that of Adam to God. The text makes that point by making Eve unique of all creatures -- a special creature unlike any other. No other was made in such ways and no other was made for the purposes of love only.

Great point. Busterdog. I have never thought of this purpose in the creation. Thanks.

busterdog · Aug 17, 2008

juvenissun said:
Great point. Busterdog. I have never thought of this purpose in the creation. Thanks.

You're welcome.

For the chicks on this thread, I know it sounds heavy handed (but it isnt).

Rather than apologize, I am reminded of a particularly good piece of writing by Joni Mitchell about guys:

Dont interrupt the sorrow
Darn right
He says "we walked on the moon
You be polite."
Dont let up the sorrow
Death and birth and death and birth
He says "bring that bottle kindly
And Ill pad your purse-
Ive got a head full of quandary
And a mighty, mighty, thirst."

I mean, that is a really good line!

PETE_ · Aug 17, 2008

juvenissun said:
Great point. Busterdog. I have never thought of this purpose in the creation. Thanks.

I fixed the title for you

Why isn't Eve made together with Adam?

... and God saw that it was good.

Veteran

Senior Veteran

... and God saw that it was good.

Senior Veteran

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

... and God saw that it was good.

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

... and God saw that it was good.

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

... and God saw that it was good.

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

Senior Veteran

... and God saw that it was good.

Senior Veteran

Count as lost, every moment not spent loving God

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