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Why is faith a virtue?

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cantata

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Faith is a strange concept, and I won't attempt to tell you guys how you define it, because as I see it there are several possible definitions.

There is faith as in mere belief. I guess if you like you could say that I have faith in the theory of general relativity, because I believe that the theory of general relativity is true. But I think that, while the word is sometimes used - or people claim it is being used - in this way, it's a rather disingenuous meaning. If all you mean is "belief", just say it. I don't think there's anything particularly virtuous about this kind of faith.

Then there is faith as in the faith one has in a person, and essentially this comes down to the belief that the person can be trusted to do something. I have faith that my mother will look after me if I'm sick. This is a special kind of belief: a belief that a certain act is likely to be undertaken by a certain person. Now this kind of faith is prudent or imprudent depending on the actual character of the person in whom one has faith. It is prudent of me to have faith that my mother will look after me if I'm sick, because she always has done in the past and I know that she loves me. It would be imprudent of me to have faith that someone I know sometimes steals things and is often dishonest will tell me the truth about whether or not she took my watch. However, I don't think my faith in either case has any moral value. Either I am right or wrong to put faith in someone, but it does not make me a bad person if I make a mistake about whom to put faith in, nor if I have faith in more people rather than fewer.

Finally, there is "blind faith" - that is, belief that something is true without adequate (or any) evidence to support its truth. I simply can't see how this latter kind of faith can be a virtue, because it seems to contravene the way that we usually think in every field of discourse apart from religion. Usually we applaud people when they review all the evidence and come to a valid conclusion, and we are unimpressed when people ignore the evidence or say that it isn't important.

Recently someone said that there aren't many miracles these days because if there were too many then you wouldn't need faith. But why is faith so important? What's wrong with believing in God because of evidence? What is virtuous or good about believing in him with less than adequate or convincing evidence?

Please explain. Put simply, I can't understand why simply believing something can be considered a virtue, whatever kind of belief it is - the usual, evidence-based kind; the belief that someone will behave in a certain way; or the belief in something with little or no evidence. I'm not particularly knocking any of these kinds of beliefs themselves. I'm simply asking you how any of them can be considered a virtue.
 

PantsMcFist

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The big question is who gets to define evidence?

I would say, in response, that there is no such thing as blind faith. No one believes anything without any reason to do so. If someone believe, in your blind faith sense, in God, or Jesus, it's because they have experienced something which has convinced them of the validity of the belief. The reason this type of faith gets an unfair label of blind is that experiential faith is not empirically quantifiable, and is anecdotal at best. On this basis those experiences are written off by skeptics. I think it's this radical skepticism that pushes people further into the 'belief without reason' camp. From there, people who had reasons to believe reject rational belief in favor of radical belief.
 
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PhilosophicalBluster

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Or their parents have convinced them to believe it from an early age. The majority gets to draw a big circle around themselves, and everybody outside that circle is wrong and should be smitten, or at least made uncomfortable socially. People go into the circle not because of their own beliefs, but because they like the inside of the circle better than the outside.

Thus we have conformity for the wrong reasons, a.k.a., blind faith.
 
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cantata

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Then it's a mixture of the first and second kind of faith.

The reason this type of faith gets an unfair label of blind is that experiential faith is not empirically quantifiable, and is anecdotal at best. On this basis those experiences are written off by skeptics.

I'm not really bothered about what counts as evidence. If you think personal experience counts as evidence, well, okay then. My question is just about whether or not this belief, whether it is based on evidence or not, is virtuous.

I think it's this radical skepticism that pushes people further into the 'belief without reason' camp. From there, people who had reasons to believe reject rational belief in favor of radical belief.

I think it is impossible to deny that some people claim that believing in God without staring-you-in-the-face evidence is a virtue. That is what I am asking about. I am not accusing anyone of blind faith.
 
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Rebekka

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I don't see faith as a virtue either.

Also, faith/religion/christianity (I don't know where one ends and the other begins) is not a set of morals.

Faith to me is more like a gift, and it seems to me that God gives it quite randomly to people.

Not seeing faith as a virtue also means that I cannot see lack of faith as a sin worthy of hell.
 
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WatersMoon110

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Exactly what I was going to say, only better. Thanks.

I don't think that people really can believe in something without some evidence. It is just that religious beliefs can only be backed up by personal evidence - and that cannot be used as proof to assert that religious belief is correct.

I would be surprised to find someone who believed in something without any indication of it existing. I have heard some people (here and elsewhere) who state that the lack of any evidence is why they deconverted. Blind faith cannot really last, in my opinion. I see no virtue in it.
 
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cantata

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Okay, but again, I'm not really accusing anyone of having blind faith. I'm just asking, of all the things that are described as "faith", which, if any, are a virtue, and why.
 
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WatersMoon110

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Okay, but again, I'm not really accusing anyone of having blind faith. I'm just asking, of all the things that are described as "faith", which, if any, are a virtue, and why.
Oh. But that isn't as fun to talk about. *wink*

I don't think that faith, in and of itself is a virtue. Only good deeds and loving thoughts are virtuous, in my opinion, whether or not one is motivated by faith.
 
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cantata

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Surely that's just confidence? Or getting off your backside and doing something?

Why is the belief a virtue? Surely doing something about one's situation is the important part.
 
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allhart

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Life is evaluated in a degree of antonyms and the virtue behind the both. Makes a measure of your motives.
Man doesn't see himself as evil. What is evil?
Another thing for most, they compromise by trying to live in the gray area, but that's still a mess. In laws of life, reality and perfection is still to one side or the other and there is a right and wrong strategy to life. I strive to what is in the spectrum of God, not the antonym or even half of what is God. So yes my faith has virtue to it and I whole heartily embrace him.
Along with that statement. If life ends in death? Then life is pointless. Perfection of life is pointless. That is an evil thought,but in my reality of thinking in my reasoning of spectrum of antonyms ect. Then their is a God in which is Holy and righteous in virtue...
 
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Athene

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It depends on what you think faith is. If faith is merely the ability to believe 7 impossible things before breakfast then no it's not a virtue. If faith is about trust, about sticking with somebody through thick and thin then yes it is a virtue.
 
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cantata

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It depends on what you think faith is. If faith is merely the ability to believe 7 impossible things before breakfast then no it's not a virtue. If faith is about trust, about sticking with somebody through thick and thin then yes it is a virtue.

I would call "sticking with somebody through thick and thin" loyalty. Loyalty is a virtue because it is an action: a dedication and commitment to supporting and caring for someone or for a cause. Faith is a belief. I still can't see how a belief can be a virtue.
 
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Garyzenuf

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Why do so many religous people believe this, it seems a common sentiment of the saved, this probably leads to "faith" in any belief system
that has a nice story attached to it, like happily ever after.



Apparently it is if it comes from the bible.

*
 
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Chesterton

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I would call "sticking with somebody through thick and thin" loyalty. Loyalty is a virtue because it is an action: a dedication and commitment to supporting and caring for someone or for a cause.

I think loyalty is a part of faith; loyalty to God, loyalty to virtue, and loyalty to faith itself. And it’s no less an action merely because it’s a mental/spiritual action.

Faith is a belief. I still can't see how a belief can be a virtue.

Think of faith partly as a kind of courage. I wish I knew English grammar better so that I could use the proper terminology, but notice the differences in they type of nouns they are – “I have ‘a’ belief” versus “I have faith”. An act of belief is singular, whereas faith is an ongoing concern. Belief requires some evidence upon which you make a decision. After you’ve made a decision (determined your belief), you then continue to believe, and act, and live, according to your degree of faith in that belief. This is true for everyone; atheists as well as Christians.

This is not historically accurate, but it approximates what some older folks learned as kids: Columbus believed the earth was round; there were naysayers who said the earth was flat, and told him he would die falling off the end of the earth if he sailed too far. He could have had “a” belief, and stayed safely at home, but it was his faith that his belief was true which enabled him to act on his belief.

It is in this sense that faith is related to courage, and if there’s one virtue that all humanity agrees is a virtue, it is courage. Faith is virtuous because it enables you to act, live, think and continue to believe what you once decided.

But faith has much texture. There’s also the trust aspect. If God is good and true, we should naturally trust in Him (we were originally meant to). But we have fallen and we don’t. Trust is also a virtue, if the object of trust is goodness and truth.

I'm sure there are more elements of faith to consider; I'm not yet virtuous enough to know them.
 
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