Why is being prosperous and healthy considered wrong?

Rockrz · Aug 27, 2005

menno said:
So it's ok to want to upgrade my material status even if it could be used better elsewhere?

God never said He didn't want you well supplied, personally. Aren't you a child of the King...serving the King while you are here as an Ambassador of Christ? If so, why would the King be opposed to His Children being well supplied...provided they keep God first.

God owns the entire earth and all the wealth in it, so this "even if it could be used better elsewhere" is a religious copout. God has enough to supply you nicely, AND everyone else at the same time...He's not cheap!

The Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, said that there is nothing wrong with eating the fruit of the seeds you've planted:

1 Corinthians 9:7
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own expense? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

The point is that God desires to meet ALL of His Children's needs...but some of His Children won't allow Him to...and that hurts the heart of our Heavenly Father who IS Love!

MrJim · Aug 27, 2005

Rockrz said:
God never said He didn't want you well supplied, personally. Aren't you a child of the King...serving the King while you are here as an Ambassador of Christ? If so, why would the King be opposed to His Children being well supplied...provided they keep God first.

God owns the entire earth and all the wealth in it, so this "even if it could be used better elsewhere" is a religious copout. God has enough to supply you nicely, AND everyone else at the same time...He's not cheap!

The Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, said that there is nothing wrong with eating the fruit of the seeds you've planted:

1 Corinthians 9:7
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own expense? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

The point is that God desires to meet ALL of His Children's needs...but some of His Children won't allow Him to...and that hurts the heart of our Heavenly Father who IS Love!

Sorry buddy, but it's hard to even read this seriously.

Children die around the world for lack of food. Is it God failing to provide? Perhaps we are God's hands and feet on this world and are to use those means provided to us to provide for the "least of these our brethren" instead of enjoying luxury because we are a "king's kid".

tbird_energizerbunny · Aug 27, 2005

In Christ's prayer what did it mean when he said:

I have come so that they might have life and have it MORE ABUNDANTLY!!!!

MrJim · Aug 27, 2005

tbird_energizerbunny said:
In Christ's prayer what did it mean when he said:

I have come so that they might have life and have it MORE ABUNDANTLY!!!!

Consider the reason that Christ had to come in the first place--the redemption of sin. There are plenty of people on this earth that have had an abundant life without Christ--in the terms that are being used here: material abundance.

The life that Christ came to give us in abundance was a life demonstrated by him--in bearing our cross, as a servant to others, putting others ahead of ourselves. It is through this that we gain the abundant life--with our rewards in the Kingdom of Heaven, not in the Kingdom of Man.

Remember the context of this statement and the context of the Kingdom of God.

A Brother In Christ · Aug 27, 2005

A Brother In Christ said:
1 tim 6:5b supposeing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. col 3:5

philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things

it all where there focus is if on money it clear..

we as christians are only promised food and one pair of clothing...1 tim 6:8
God calls us to look at are postition in the heavenlies where God has fill us full of his grace and made us rich in spirit!

please read scripture

Rockrz · Aug 27, 2005

menno said:
Children die around the world for lack of food. Is it God failing to provide? Perhaps we are God's hands and feet on this world and are to use those means provided to us to provide for the "least of these our brethren" instead of enjoying luxury because we are a "king's kid".

Congrats! You hit the nail on the head...this is THE reason we are to believe God for financial prosperity so that HE can establish His Covenant in the earth through us! (see Deuteronomy 8:18)

When you go minister in these third world countries, you'd better take some material things with you such as food, clothing, medical help, ect...which requires money!

And, as we give, God sees to it that it is given to us again according to Jesus in Luke 6:38 so we can not only have more to give again, and again, and again, but we can also have nice things ourselves.

God wants all His Children to have nice things...unless you believe God is a tyrant! I'm glad to see someone is finally seeing the purpose for financial prosperity.

menno said:
Consider the reason that Christ had to come in the first place--the redemption of sin.... There are plenty of people on this earth that have had an abundant life without Christ....with our rewards in the Kingdom of Heaven, not in the Kingdom of Man.

It is because of sin entering the human race that poverty, lack, sickness, and death came to us in the first place! If it weren't for sin, NOBODY would go without any good thing!

Jesus came and reversed that in every area of man's existance...but some people don't believe it was every area...they seem to think God didn't know what He was doing and left material things out of the plan of redemption.

We are in the Kingdom of God now, according to what the Holy Spirit said through Paul:

Colossians 1:13
Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son

We are IN CHRIST now! Therefore, why would God want us to not have all that we desire...considering He owns it all anyway? All He expects us to do is keep Him first, which is no problem since He is the source for all good things.

It's too bad that some Christians think that money will destroy them!
They should read the book of Proverbs more.

Rockrz · Aug 27, 2005

A Brother In Christ said:
please read scripture

I guess Jesus and Paul were evil...they took up offerings and had money to run their ministries with!

No, you should quit taking the warnings that were given ABOUT money out of context! I never said money is the first thing in our lives...but it shouldn't be ignored either, which is what some Christians allow the devil to talk them into.

MrJim · Aug 27, 2005

Rockrz said:
Congrats! You hit the nail on the head...this is THE reason we are to believe God for financial prosperity so that HE can establish His Covenant in the earth through us! (see Deuteronomy 8:18)

When you go minister in these third world countries, you'd better take some material things with you such as food, clothing, medical help, ect...which requires money!

And, as we give, God sees to it that it is given to us again according to Jesus in Luke 6:38 so we can not only have more to give again, and again, and again, but we can also have nice things ourselves.

God wants all His Children to have nice things...unless you believe God is a tyrant! I'm glad to see someone is finally seeing the purpose for financial prosperity.

It is because of sin entering the human race that poverty, lack, sickness, and death came to us in the first place! If it weren't for sin, NOBODY would go without any good thing!

Jesus came and reversed that in every area of man's existance...but some people don't believe it was every area...they seem to think God didn't know what He was doing and left material things out of the plan of redemption.

We are in the Kingdom of God now, according to what the Holy Spirit said through Paul:

Colossians 1:13
Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son

We are IN CHRIST now! Therefore, why would God want us to not have all that we desire...considering He owns it all anyway? All He expects us to do is keep Him first, which is no problem since He is the source for all good things.

It's too bad that some Christians think that money will destroy them!
They should read the book of Proverbs more.

Yeah I can see the use for money. I don't turn down raises at work. I steward what I have. I could be driving better cars-I have two (which is one more than I need but received one through an inheritance) and both have at least 175K miles on them. Paint is fading on one and peeling on the other. Eh, so what? I rent half a house in town--so what? It is all so fleeting. Tell ya what. I'll steward as I understand the scripture and you steward as you understand and we'll both just serve God that way!

A Brother In Christ · Aug 27, 2005

Rockrz said:
I guess Jesus and Paul were evil...they took up offerings and had money to run their ministries with!

No, you should quit taking the warnings that were given ABOUT money out of context! I never said money is the first thing in our lives...but it shouldn't be ignored either, which is what some Christians allow the devil to talk them into.

another person jump off a cliff and shoving a shoe up there backside..

God works either way....phil 4:10-16

but God does not promise...abundants to the church that is OT truth not New testament

Rockrz · Aug 27, 2005

menno said:
I'll steward as I understand the scripture and you steward as you understand and we'll both just serve God that way!

No problem!

I'll believe God for increase and His return on my giving and my income will grow more, and more, and more, and I'll be able to give more, and more, and more, money to the Gospel because as my income grows, my giving will grow with it...and the end result will be more people being blessed and coming into the kingdom of God!

...verses, not believing God for increase, so it never comes and only a few folks will be blessed and come into the kingdom of God.

No problem!

Rockrz · Aug 27, 2005

A Brother In Christ said:
abundants to the church that is OT truth not New testament

You know nothing about the blessing of Abraham and the fact that we are in Christ and heirs to the promise, do you?

The devil sold you a bill of goods, bro.
Oh well...as long as you don't renouce Jesus as your Lord, at least you'll get to go to Heaven.

5stringJeff · Aug 28, 2005

Rockrz, if I didn't know any better, I'd say that you were caught up in greed. God calls us to be stewards of His blessings, not hoarders of His blessings. That is the distinction that the health-and-wealth 'gospel' leaves out. Too many people in health-and-wealth churches hoard their wealth, buying themselves things, when they ought to consider how that money can be spent to spread the Gospel.

God is not Santa Claus, out to give, give, give for everything you ask for. God will give according to the faithfulness you show in being a steward of His possessions. And don't think that I am advocating that every Christian take a vow of poverty. Jesus's teachings on money were quite clear: we are to be stewards, looking for ways to turn our material possessions into gains for our Master - people who come to repentance and salvation.

BigNorsk · Aug 28, 2005

1Ti 6:5-11 NET
(5) and constant bickering by people corrupted in their minds and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a way of making a profit.
(6) Now godliness combined with contentment brings great profit.
(7) For we have brought nothing into this world and so we cannot take a single thing out either.
(8) But if we have food and shelter, we will be satisfied with that.
(9) Those who long to be rich, however, stumble into temptation and a trap and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
(10) For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.
(11) But you, as a person dedicated to God, keep away from all that. Instead pursue righteousness, godliness, faithfulness, love, endurance, and gentleness.

Luk 12:15 NET
(15) Then he said to them, "Watch out and guard yourself from all types of greed, because one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."

Phi 4:11-12 NET
(11) I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content in any circumstance.
(12) I have experienced times of need and times of abundance. In any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of contentment, whether I go satisfied or hungry, have plenty or nothing.

Heb 13:5 NET
(5) Your conduct must be free from the love of money and you must be content with what you have, for he has said, "I will never leave you and I will never abandon you."

Job 1:21 NET
(21) He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will return there. The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away. May the name of the Lord be blessed!"

Pro 30:7-9 NET
(7) Two things I ask from you; do not refuse me before I die:
(8) Remove falsehood and lies far from me; do not give me poverty or riches, feed me with my allotted bread,
(9) lest I become satisfied and act deceptively and say, "Who is the Lord?" or lest I become poor and steal and harm the name of my God.

Pro 23:4 NET
(4) Do not wear yourself out to become rich; be wise enough to restrain yourself.

Pro 28:20 NET
(20) A faithful person will have an abundance of blessings, but the one who hastens to gain riches will not go unpunished.

That's just some, God promises us many blessings. The mistake is to think that being blessed equals worldly wealth. If you follow the Proverbs the right thing to pray for is neither wealth nor poverty, but more to be middle class. If you pick up the newspaper you find it is full of the poor and the wealthy, those with their needs taken care of, but not a lot of wealth seldom are there. You create a dichotomy of riches or poverty as the choices to pray for but that's a false choice.

Note that when Jesus taught us to pray he said "Give us this day our daily bread", not "I have a beautiful new house in Vail with two new suv's parked by it..."

God promises us peace, contentment with what we have. Even though you seem to claim to have much. You seem to just want to get more and more. How much does it take for you to be content?

Marv

A Brother In Christ · Aug 28, 2005

Rockrz said:
You know nothing about the blessing of Abraham and the fact that we are in Christ and heirs to the promise, do you?

The devil sold you a bill of goods, bro.
Oh well...as long as you don't renouce Jesus as your Lord, at least you'll get to go to Heaven.

hebrews 11:39-40

..no I have better promises than them

by grace

Rockrz · Aug 28, 2005

BigNorsk said:
You seem to just want to get more and more. How much does it take for you to be content?

I'm very happy now...for what I've got personally....but life is much more than me personally.

Where does that leave all the people around this world that I could be helping if I had more?

You guys are all about yourselves...you don't believe God wants us to increase, therefore your blessings to others will be small...when it could be much bigger! But, you don't have think of others if you don't want to...just your 4 and no more!

Before I can give millions...I have to make millions.
You guys can relax, I'm a businessman not a preacher. God has taught me how to prosper, and I've grown my business by giving to what God is doing first before myself...and it just keeps growing, and growing, and growing...because God's giving the increase! I'm not worried about anything and I'm totally care free because God is causing this to grow, not me.

Prosperity in every area of life was God's idea in the first place.
You guys don't believe this, so you can go without. It's no problem!

It's perfectly OK for me to make millions, even billions of dollars for the purpose of spreading the Gospel around the world...and after I give away most everything I make, yes I will have enough left over to have nice things for my family.

It's too bad that this makes you jealous and un-happy...but that's your problem, not mine.

Rockrz · Aug 28, 2005

A Brother In Christ said:
hebrews 11:39-40

..no I have better promises than them

by grace

This portion of Hebrews is talking about the OT guys didn't get the promise of the Spirit that God promised Abraham..which is the Holy Spirit's regeneration of man, or the new birth as we call it today.

It doesn't mean they "served God for years and never got anything out of it" like the devil has been interpreting it to say. All these guys were rich!...and God made 'em rich and there was no sorrow with it.

Being rich is God's idea, not man's.
Man wouldn't know the difference between gold and dirt if it weren't for God.

A Brother In Christ · Aug 28, 2005

Rockrz said:
It's too bad that this makes you jealous and un-happy...but that's your problem, not mine.

if you have money ...that great

with money come responsibility...

but How many people that are not godly have money?that are drug / wife beaters/ what ever they do

In the OT if you did these things ... they would be poor...in Israel

there are principles in the OT about the wisdom of this world that one can become rich if the Lord wills it... but I know of people that are hard working and are still poor...

whether poor or rich in this world ....

Once in Christ they are rich in their position at the right hand of the Father....

are you content like in phil 4...rich or poor...yet content

or are you wanting more...

Rockrz · Aug 28, 2005

A Brother In Christ said:
if you have money ...that great

with money come responsibility...

but How many people that are not godly have money?that are drug / wife beaters/ what ever they do

In the OT if you did these things ... they would be poor...in Israel

there are principles in the OT about the wisdom of this world that one can become rich if the Lord wills it... but I know of people that are hard working and are still poor...

whether poor or rich in this world ....

Once in Christ they are rich in their position at the right hand of the Father....

are you content like in phil 4...rich or poor...yet content

or are you wanting more...

You're missing the point of having more!
It's not me I'm thinking of...it's all the people that need to be reached for Jesus out there that I'm thinking about. That's first and foremost because that is the great commission. It's why Jesus asked us to be His witnesses...if it weren't for this, then we could just go home once we got saved.

Yes, there are alot of un-godly people with money...and that's God's money they are using to spread the satanic message of sin and death with!

Wouldn't it be better if God's people got a hold of some of this cash and spend it on spreading the Gospel...or should we sit by doing nothing and watch satan use money to fight Christianity?

Which is better?

A Brother In Christ · Aug 28, 2005

Rockrz said:
You're missing the point of having more!
It's not me I'm thinking of...it's all the people that need to be reached for Jesus out there that I'm thinking about. That's first and foremost because that is the great commission. It's why Jesus asked us to be His witnesses...if it weren't for this, then we could just go home once we got saved.

Yes, there are alot of un-godly people with money...and that's God's money they are using to spread the satanic message of sin and death with!

Wouldn't it be better if God's people got a hold of some of this cash and spend it on spreading the Gospel...or should we sit by doing nothing and watch satan use money to fight Christianity?

Which is better?

So does God need money to spread the gospel? no

Satan noticed the more he persecuted the church the more it grew....
the more money christian got the more it wandered ..worry about the things of this world

yet if you have the gift of giving ... give and be in God's will for you
But to tell a person with the gift of preaching to the body to try to use the gift to evanglise is wrong..they can do it but that is not there gift..by a preacher evanglising he is starving the body of believer that need meat to grow

the gifted evanglist need to go out from the body and tell the gospel..so that the preacher can feed them and a person with helps can come aside of him and help him catch up with the rest in that assembly

Rockrz · Aug 28, 2005

A Brother In Christ said:
So does God need money to spread the gospel? no

Satan noticed the more he persecuted the church the more it grew....
the more money christian got the more it wandered ..worry about the things of this world

Yes, God does need money to preach the Gospel around this world because money buys the goods and services needed in this natural world...besides, it's God's money in the first place!

Why wouldn't God use His own money?
He's teaching the Body of Christ now how to properly handle money, but some keep listening to the devil who is continually whispering in their ear "if you get any money it will get you into trouble and cause you to run away from God"

...like all of a sudden, the devil is interested in seeing us not turn away from God. He tells Christians this so they will leave him alone on this money business because the devil LOVES money... loving money is the root of all evil because money not only buys things, it buys influence in this world...ands the devil is using money to buy influence AGAINST Christians in the marketplace and in the media...quite successfully, I might add.

And what do the Christians do about this...most of them believe that what the devil says is correct, so they do nothing...and continue to believe that the wealth of this world is actually owned by the devil. A theif never had title deed to anything...if he did, it would be fraudulent!

Proverbs 1:32
For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Do you think all Christians are fools who can't properly handle money?

If a Christian gets alittle money and they are so shallow in their relationship with God that is causes them to fall away, then they were imature baby Christians in the first place. If it wasn't money causing them to fall away, it would be something else.

Why is being prosperous and healthy considered wrong?

Do you think God wants us to be prosperous in every area of our lives???

Of course...it's His desire!

Naw, I think we ought to all be broke so we'll be humble!

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