Why I'm an ex-Christian, part 1

"... thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven."

Why do so many Christians continue to pray something they neither believe will happen nor want to happen?

Whether you are an ex-christian or not, it doesn't matter. You can read Revelation and see that it doesn't make sense. But if you read Galations, in the beginning, I have found that it says that all things before it, meaning Genesis to Romans was to be taken as the exact truth, before that you had different views. That's where we get our different religious sects and the book of Revelation. Whether God will destroy the world is uncertain. It is a 1 in 2 chance. And personally i would want to be on the side that says i will be in Heaven before he destroys the world. And the only way to do that is to have faith in your Lord and that his son Jesus christ is the Savior of the world and you are saved thru him. I am sure you have already heard that whole spill, but it is never to late to remind someone. Now if there is an anti-christ, he wouldn't be a human. He would be satan, or a very big time demon. And everyone who is not a Christian, had their chance. The bible says that everyone will have their chance. and so you should consider realizing this. And i just hope that you do. Because even though i don't know you. It'd be pretty cool to see you in heaven. And i really would hate for you to have to use compassion as a reason for not being a christian. I know you have compassion for the others that aren't. But you shouldn't consider being like them, but instead talk with them and help them thru there tough times. I know that is what i would do. And i know that if i was an athiest i would be looking for something more than just what i have on earth. And God makes sense. If you have any questions...don't worry about asking. And that is why i find nothing wrong with your message.
God Bless You My Friend!
John

We can't "win" or debate you into God's hands. Either you are a child of God, or you aren't. Either you dead in the spirit, or your born again. It's far beyond our control and yours.

Claiming your an ex-Christian is like claiming your an ex-human. Just because you associated with other Christians and went to church before, and even sided with Christian beliefs doesn't make you a Christian.

You don't choose God, He chooses you. Just like we don't choose to be born in the flesh.

About the whole universe and everything going bye bye...i don't know exactly what the bible might say about that. But i do know that it won't matter. God is all knowing. God is all seeing. God knows all about the past and the present and the future. If God wants there to be a new heaven and a new earth the we should rejoice in that. If he wants it to stay the same then yay i get to finally see the Effiel Tower. If you would stop trying to be Scientists of the Bible and just had a little faith then it would all make sense. Jesus said have faith the size of a mustard seed and you can move a mountain. I haven't moved any mountains, but i have faith. It's such an easy concept. It's not even a religion anymore, but a relationship.
God Bless Ya'll!!!

ebia said:

How very unbiblical

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" Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

Why would God have an earth with nothing on it? You misinterpret..
If you read the original Greek, the "rapture" can go either way.

"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left."

taken - paralambano (oftten to judgment)
left - aphietai (left or forgiven)

depends how you interpret the words.

Aibrean said:

" Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

Why would God have an earth with nothing on it? You misinterpret..
If you read the original Greek, the "rapture" can go either way.

"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left."

taken - paralambano (oftten to judgment)
left - aphietai (left or forgiven)

depends how you interpret the words.

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You can find some stuff that appears to support just about any theory you want. The problem with an end-times view of pure spirituality is that it isn't compatible with quite a lot of foundation stuff (including, for example, the Lord's Prayer), even though you can "support it" with some carefully picked proof-texts.

The bible uses "new heaven and new earth" language, and renewal of the current heaven and earth language, to describe what's going to happen depending upon whether the emphasis is on what is going to be wiped away (sin, death, suffering, evil) or what is going to be redeemed (beauty, justice, all that is right in creation, the image of God in us). What it doesn't do (except in quotes ripped from context) is support a "this physical world will be ended and we will go to live with God in a purely spirtual world".

TheKingOfImmortality said:

true, but what gets me is that there somthing in the bible that seems to go against everthing the Gosples teaches. (manly when taken literaly)

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Like what? Some of what you're saying about Revelation is true, much is not.

If God is going to judge the world and destroy the wicked, why do you believe He is going to do this? What does the Bible say is His purpose for doing this?

Revelation 21:3
"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

notice it's God is living WITH men, not men living with God.

ebia said:

"... thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven."

Why do so many Christians continue to pray something they neither believe will happen nor want to happen?

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Oh boy, ebia. I believe it will happen and I really really want it to happen!

I would guess you missed the part about "a new heaven and a new earth."

Hi everyone,

this is my view, not well backed up with scripture as I'm not very good at remembering it.

Revelation is a book about prophecy. The thing about prophecy is that you cannot interpret it correctly, except in hindsight. Look at the old testament prophecy, the Jews knew all about it and many still found it hard to accept the messiah had come.

God is God, we are his creation, we do not know everything about everything, so how can we judge what is right in his eyes.

He is also holy, cannot stand sin, therefore he has decided that there will be a time for us to have a relationship with him in this life, and be rewarded with eternity with him, or choose to go our own way now and not be with him at the end of the world. A season for everything springs to mind.

Whatever we think, we need to ask God what he thinks, I would be interested to read part 2, but cant see it yet. I suspect there are other things going on in your life that you have issues with, now just this. God is the only one who can deal with this.

I have recently returned to faith after a ten year gap, and can say that my Heavenly Father pursued me all the way, he never let my go, if this is your experience, then you will get the answers you need to find a relationship with him again.

Catrin xx

TheKingOfImmortality said:

Hey, I am Ex-Christian am I am going to go threw all the reasons why I not a christian any more to give the Christians a chance to win me back.

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I'm sure we'll do our best.

For my frist part I am going to go straight for the thing that was the final straw for me and that is....

The book of Revelations.

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I would love to hear of the other straws.

At frist I did not think much of this part but now it one of the many things on why I cant become a Christian. Why would a kind and loving God destroy the world?

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An equally compelling question would be "Why would a just God maintain the world?"

The situation really is a bit like this: The world will be destroyed when there isn't anything worth maintaining in it. The world will have almost destroyed itself by that time, so the idea of God's all-loving grace really has nothing to be exercised on.

At frist I did not think much of the book but that was before for a few events in my life cause me to relize that if this was to be ture it means God dose not care for the all the people of the world (And those events in my life made me relize that ever life is precius in this world).

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All the people who accept His grace will be no worse off (Nay, better off), and those who do not will have made their decision.

Think about it, if it was a true prochey that would mean there would be people who were desteind to play the part of the Anti-Christ army or whatever it is that in Revelation god will destroy.

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This is a common leap of logic among Biblical critics. Just because something has been prophesied does not mean that the thing is happening because of the prophesy. On the contrary, the prophesy is happening because of the event, just before it happens.

It is hard to understand, but look at it this way: If you saw the disaster at the twin towers, and because of it invented a time machine, then went back in time to warn everyone (People would ignore the warning like they have the prophesies) of the event... Are you then causing the disaster, or is what you are doing caused by the disaster?

In past history many people have used Revelation as way for fighting there enemys.

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Indeed?

Is that not what people in the mid-east do?

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If you are referring to the Muslim terrorists, then certainly not. They view Revelation as heresy (If I am not mistaken).

There was a time I though I wanted a god who would fight the bad guys of the world, bring justice to all

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You clearly did not realize that that would include you, me, and everyone else in the world.

but somthing in my life made me relize I need a god who love all sides of all wars in history.

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It depends, which side of the American Civil War was He supposed to take? Surely someone is right and someone is wrong.

There was a time I thought the Christian god was it but Revelations and other things (that I will talk about later) I think proves that is not the case.

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There is a difference between loving and enabling. Surely you should expect God to bring justice to those who refuse His mercy.

I will not follow a god who creates people who's only purpose in the world was to be destroyed and then sent to hell for being on the wrong the side of a war.

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See above... Far above.

So how is Revelation a work a kind and loving god?

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Well, that's quite simple. he is willing to grant mercy to all who will take it... For those who refuse it, they have chosen where they wish to be for all eternity.

TheKingOfImmortality said:

Hey, I am Ex-Christian am I am going to go threw all the reasons why I not a christian any more to give the Christians a chance to win me back. For my frist part I am going to go straight for the thing that was the final straw for me and that is....

The book of Revelations.

At frist I did not think much of this part but now it one of the many things on why I cant become a Christian. Why would a kind and loving God destroy the world? At frist I did not think much of the book but that was before for a few events in my life cause me to relize that if this was to be ture it means God dose not care for the all the people of the world (And those events in my life made me relize that ever life is precius in this world). Think about it, if it was a true prochey that would mean there would be people who were desteind to play the part of the Anti-Christ army or whatever it is that in Revelation god will destroy. In past history many people have used Revelation as way for fighting there enemys. Is that not what people in the mid-east do? There was a time I though I wanted a god who would fight the bad guys of the world, bring justice to all but somthing in my life made me relize I need a god who love all sides of all wars in history. There was a time I thought the Christian god was it but Revelations and other things (that I will talk about later) I think proves that is not the case. I will not follow a god who creates people who's only purpose in the world was to be destroyed and then sent to hell for being on the wrong the side of a war. So how is Revelation a work a kind and loving god?

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From my perspective, Revelation is a book of hope. The message seems to be that no matter how awful things get in this world, God has already won. The analogy I heard many years ago goes something like this:


May not be theologically sound, but for me it has been very comforting.

Revelation is one of many apocalyptic (end times) writings that were quite popular after the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. There is the Apocalypse of Peter, the Apocalypse of Paul, and various others.

There are four main schools of thought about interpreting and within those schools there is an almost infinite amount of variation.

The Historists school says Revelation is the unfolding of events from the time of it's writing to the future return of Jesus.

The Preterists say it was written for the times only.

The Futurists say it was written as a prophetic document so had little relevance for the times.

The Spiritualists say it is all symbolic.

All four groups can make compelling arguments for their view point. None can be proven or disproven as being the true interpretation.

Enough lecturing.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

in the end thats how god will decide who is worthy of him an who is not. I think if you focus on only one book in the whole bible and then gave up christ so easily, you may not have had strong faith in him at all. you cant change what will soon happen, regardless of what you think and believ the end will come and it is your choice wheither you accept what has happened an what will happen, and it is also your choice wheither you accept christ fully. No matter what people say, noone can make you accept him. That is for you to decide yourself. Sorry if anything offended you but this is my opinion.