• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Why Evolution is Impossible part II

Status
Not open for further replies.

Willtor

Not just any Willtor... The Mighty Willtor
Apr 23, 2005
9,713
1,429
44
Cambridge
Visit site
✟39,787.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others

Look, Calypsis, you can't tell us that we believe something we don't believe. And you can't tell us that we don't believe something that we do. I mean, you _can_, technically, but it isn't very constructive.

Really and truly, what you are saying evolutionists think, it isn't evolution. It's something else that nobody AFAIK thinks. You can't expect us to defend it because it sounds silly to us, too.
 
Upvote 0

29apples

Newbie
Jul 4, 2008
197
17
MD
✟22,920.00
Faith
Christian
Wait, can I break down the OPs argument into premises and conclusion?

Premise 1: The bible does not state biological evolution is true

Premise 2: There are species whose morphology is very similar to ancestral morphology

Premise 3: We do not observe the change of one organism to another organism, for example we do not see racist gorilla man, or chimp dog.

Conclusion: Evolution is impossible

Unfortunately the OP fails in creating a logical argument through 3 logical fallacies
P1: Fallacy of appeal to authority. OP asserts that the New testament, Moses, prophets, etc. said all things were created by God (a literal creation). Just because it is written does not make it true.
P2: Converse Fallacy of Accident. The OP argues using a special case against a general rule (never mind the misunderstandings of evolution associated with his arguments)
P3: Clearly a straw man. Organisms do not evolve. Populations do.
 
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

If you think that organisms can eventually change into other organisms with different chromosome counts (i.e. apes 48, humans 46) then you believe in Darwinian evolution. That's that.

If you believe that all living things had a common biological ancestor then you believe in Darwinian evolution which is contrary to God's Word.

I'm getting tired of being lied to. I am an ex-evolutionist and I have debated the issue for 45 yrs. Don't try to give me nonsense that I am not talking about evolution. You don't know what you're talking about. Furthermore, you are decieved by Satan.
 
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Bye.
 
Upvote 0

29apples

Newbie
Jul 4, 2008
197
17
MD
✟22,920.00
Faith
Christian
Sorry but you argument is still logically flawed. You still have a fallacy of appealing to authority (your response to P1), converse fallacy of accident, and a straw man.

Populations do evolve and they have changes in their DNA. Check out this Nature publication by Lenski et al.




Perhaps a better understanding of evolution would help you in your future arguments.
 
Upvote 0

laconicstudent

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2009
11,671
720
✟16,224.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat


You make a number of appeals to authority in your posts. Also, "Bye" isn't a refutation. Learn to use the forum quote tags properly, or just stop. It isn't witty, its simply annoying, as you are obviously deliberately making responding difficult.
 
Upvote 0

pgp_protector

Noted strange person
Dec 17, 2003
51,893
17,793
57
Earth For Now
Visit site
✟460,200.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
You make a number of appeals to authority in your posts. Also, "Bye" isn't a refutation. Learn to use the forum quote tags properly, or just stop. It isn't witty, its simply annoying, as you are obviously deliberately making responding difficult.

They've only said Bye about 1/2 dozen times already, but they keep coming back.
 
Upvote 0

alexross8

Alexander the great
Sep 10, 2008
37
1
Nova Scotia , Canada
✟22,663.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Big history of Earth.

roughly 6,000 years ago , the heaven and the earth were created , and he gave the dark Earth physics and light (Matter and energy), which was the first day.

On the second day , God separated water from water , which made the sky .

On the third day , God had risen the dry land , and he called the gatherings of waters , "Seas".
He created all sorts of stationary life , vegetation and trees.

On the fourth day , God created lights in the great expanse called the sky , to separate day from night , and to mark seasons.

On the fifth day , he ordered the waters to bring forth life in the sea , and birds in the air.

On the sixth day , land produced all living land animals according to their kind.
He created the livestock , the creatures that move on the ground , and the wild things.
And he then created man to have dominion over all of the Earth.

What does this history lesson tell us?
For one , it tells us that each day is an addition to the previous.Matter and energy , to noble gases and atmospheric conditions , to metalloids and first life forms (plants) , to stars to mark seasons and give light to plants , to sea life and birds , and then to land life and humans.

If you notice something , God didn't create all life on the same day.
If each day is an addition to the previous , then that would mean that land life is an addition to sea and air life.

Are birds and fish related to us?
They are genetically.

Here is my theory.
All fish and all birds gave life to all land animals.
Half fish and half birded animals became the dinosaurs , and had scales , teeth , dry land eggs , etc.
Dinosaurs had many features from fish and from birds.
Fish and dinosaur dna combined together would make an amphibian like animal , which would have long hind legs (For jumping maybe) , but also would have arms that sprouted from fins.
Bird dna combined with reptile dna would result in a number of ways , which would probably make flightless birds.
fly dna and shellfish dna would result in two creations , one would be arachnid/scorpion-like , and one would be insect-like.
Dna from dinosaurs and amphibians would probably create a lizard like animal.
And that lizard-like animal combined with whales (Mammalian fish) and bats(mammalian birds) , would probably result in a weird amount of variations , including furry rodents , hairless gigantic animals , and a very reptile-like mammal.
Again , if you mix up those variations , you would end up with furry gigantic things .
Few of these furry gigantic things would include apes , lions , mammoths , cows , etc.
Dna of lions and small rodent animals would most-likely create a type of feline that is very small and rodent-like , but has more attributes of cats.
Hyena dna would most likely go into the production of wolves , dogs , foxes , and coyotes .
Ape dna (being the most humanoid , which is no coincidence) , would go to the production of humans.


If land animals do infact have fish and bird dna , then at least half of my theory is correct.

Now lets keep going along the hitsory lesson .

Adam and Eve were the first sinners , and were kicked out of the garden of Eden.
They had children which led up to Noah's story.
According to the story , Noah and his 3 sons built an ark , because God had told him that there would be a flood to wipe out the world.

It rained for a very long time.


The rain that came down onto Earth was a lot.
I think that the rain came from the water in the sky , which was left up there to create atmosphere.
At the time that the sky fell , massive amounts of radiation poured in (Because of the little atmosphere) , which resulted in deformities in the offspring of all living creatures.
And the radiation shortened lifespans.
The animals had quickly become much different , which resulted in variations among all species.
Call it super evolution , if you will.
But the atmosphere recollected itself again , and the deformities among people and animals balanced out.
The land , which were most likely flat plateus , became mountains , valleys , deserts , etc.


My proof of Noah's ark would be the hundreds of flood stories , and the fact that the populations boom up from 2100 BC , which is a recored statistical fact.
 
Upvote 0

Dark_Lite

Chewbacha
Feb 14, 2002
18,333
973
✟52,995.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
My proof of Noah's ark would be the hundreds of flood stories , and the fact that the populations boom up from 2100 BC , which is a recored statistical fact.

The commonality of flood myths would indicate a common source of the myth, not that there was a global flood. Now, if the evidence pointed at a global flood, then the commonality would probably lend even more evidence to a global flood having happened. However, the scientific evidence does not point at a global flood.
 
Reactions: Sphinx777
Upvote 0

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The geological evidence rules out an actual, global flood as Dark Lite states. Don't believe me? Well, just ask those who know the rocks. The The Geological Society of America is composed of over 21,000 geologists, and they have issued this statement:

GEOLOGICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA (2001)


There are people who support flood geology for religious reasons, but flood geology is widely recognized as a pseudoscience with no support from the evidence, and has virtually no support among geologists.

Papias

PS - the commonality of flood myths is no surprise. Humans build cities near rivers due to food, transportation, water, and so on. Rivers flood from time to time. Legends are made over time. Why is that surprising?
 
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married


The evidence says otherwise.

This leaf is extended through several 'varves' which are layers of sediment that evolutionists claim takes a yr per layer.



One can count seven varves that this leaf extends through. No standing leaf of any kind would survive in an upright position for seven yrs. The existence of this fossil alone demolishes that theory.



Tens of thousands of animals of all kinds discovered at high elevation at Agate Springs, Nebraska. Did all those creatures just decide to migrate there are the same time and die together in the same place? Or were they merely seeking higher ground from the prevailing flood waters of Noah and got suddenly covered by volcanic ash and instantly fossilized? Which is more reasonable?

Here is another one. The Green River formation in Wyoming. It has millions of creatures that died in close proximity...all of whom were apparently buried suddenly and instantly fossilized. Some of them are remarkably preserved:



There are many of these kind of fossil graveyards all over the world. It speaks loudly of a catastrophe of major proportions that once destroyed the whole world...from fossil fish in the Alps to the Antarctic to the fossils found in the ocean floors.



Polystrate fossils. Extending through what is supposed to be millions of years of strata as dated by evolutionists.



Here is more, taken from National Geographic.

 
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
There is extensive evidence for the flood of Noah. Here is some of it from the great southwest, USA.



There are, in many places throughout the west, miles between the plateaus. The erosion at the foot of such structures is easily seen almost everywhere as it is at the base of these formations in the picture above. But where is all the billions of tons of sediment that once filled in the land at least as high as the flat surfaced plateaus themselves? In other words...



...where did all the sediment go? Where is all the dirt and rocks that once filled the space between those plateaus scattered throughout the west?



This problem exists from as far away places as Texas...



to the Dakotas...



To Arizona...



Geologists who are evolutionists have yet to recognize that so many millions of square miles of missing sediment cannot be explained away with a simplistic answer like 'erosion'...for the erosion SINCE the flood of Noah can be seen by all who merely view the terrain. Just look at the angular build-up of erosion that is seen at the base of each plateau in the pictures above. But where is all the rest? The disposition of such massive amounts of missing sediment to another location would take a flood of catastrophic proportions to account for the phenomena. I maintain that it was the incredible power of the flood waters mentioned in Genesis 6-9 that explains this.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Papias

Listening to TW4
Dec 22, 2005
3,967
988
59
✟64,806.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Calypsis4 wrote:
The evidence says otherwise.

The varve leaf - Where is that from? Is that really in varves? What publication describes it, and what to geologists say about it? Right now, all we have is a picture of a leaf. In fact, to my untrained eye, those "varves" look an awful lot like saw marks, and the fact that they cut into the leaf supports that.

fossils at high altitudes are nothing new, including snail fossils. They are usually formed by uplift of the rock after the fossils form. Are you saying that geology has established that the area where the fossils formed was the top of a mountain when the animals were alive? Help me out here.

The next one - just looking at that shows that they weren't instantly fossilized, because all the bones appear to be jumbled up - unless you are saying the animals were first torn limb from limb, then blenderized, then instantly fossilized? Mass fossil locations and even mass, contemporaneous fossilizations are not a problem for evolution - disasters like volcanic eruptions do happen - though caves or such that slowly fossilize those that fall in are also a common source of mass fossil sites. The caves can accumulate fossils for thousands, even millions of years, ending up with quite a few.

The polystrate fossils can be formed in a number of ways. For one thing, layers can be deposited, and trees or other such things grow through them later, and then become fossilized themselves. Sudden deposition does happen, though that of course wouldnt form differently dated layers. Also, deep history could take a fossil and then form layers around it, such as if a petrified tree had subsquent layer form around it. Without detail on your photos (such as what geologists say on the dating of the layers, the fossil, and all that), I can't tell anything from your photos.

Overall - do you think all those geologists are unaware of polystrate fossils, and that you just happen to have this secret knowledge that the experts missed? Does that seem plausible to you? Which do you think is more likely - that all these scientists of different religions (including Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.) all decided to form a grand conspiracy to lie about how to interpret these particular fossils, or, on the other hand, that maybe we don't have the full story on these bare pictures?

In the same "geological" vein (about your "out west" pictures) - you are saying that geologists worldwide, including the whole Geological Society of America - have somehow missed the existance of the whole freakin' southwest united states?!??! Don't you think it is a little more likely that they have looked at these supposed "flood" features, and rejected that interpretation based on the evidence? I mean, even with my untrained eye, it is obvious that all those pictures you posted are more easily explaned by simple erosion than a flood - I don't see why you think they support flood geology, much less why you think the Geological Society of America is unware of the states of Nevada, Utah, Arizona, and more.

You are aware, I assume, that flood geology was the way all features were interpreted until the early 1800's (before Darwin), and as more and more problems added up, slowly rejected as untenable based on the evidence? It's not like geologists didn't try as hard as they could for a century to make flood geology work. They did - committed Christians, too. They couldn't do so, and finally realized that it was only the idea that the flood in genesis was literal and worldwide that was closing their eyes to God's full revelation, in the earth itself.

You know about the efforts of Sedgwick, including his statements in 1831, right?

Papias
 
Upvote 0

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟42,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is extensive evidence for the flood of Noah. Here is some of it from the great southwest, USA.



There are, in many places throughout the west, miles between the plateaus.
Just throughout the west? Kind of limited for a global flood isn't it? That kind of area would make sense if sedimentary rock from the bottom of a shallow sea was uplifted.

What is simplistic about erosion? In fact creationism need erosion to happen much faster than geology. Taking a look at that last picture of yours, it is hard to estimate the positions of the base of the cliffs, but approximately 1/20 of the space outlined is filled with erosion you say took place since the flood. That is assuming none of it has washed or blown away in this time.

In other words, this amount of erosion took place in about 4,000 years. If the volume of erosion is 1/20 of the space between the cliff the whole distance could have been eroded in 80,000 years. You do not specify where your pictures comes from, in geology we are probably talking about erosion going on over something like 50 million years. Monument valley has taken 25 million years to erode, the Grand Canyon 65 million. It sounds as if it is creationism that needs hyper fast erosion after the flood.

So where did the rest of the sediment go? Probably washed away by rain and blown away in the wind, ending up in alluvial valleys and at the bottom of the sea. What is the great puzzle about missing sediment?

Incidentally. If you are trying to look at the geological picture you probably shouldn't mix it up with creationist ideas like thinking the erosion you see happened in the last 4000 years.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Your position is in error. Evolution as interpreted by uniformitarian geology is a myth.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Best wishes.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

29apples

Newbie
Jul 4, 2008
197
17
MD
✟22,920.00
Faith
Christian
Wait, are we talking about evolution or geology? I thought they were mutually exclusive?

What ever happened to disproving evolution using DNA and on a biological level?


Oh wait, I think I see the relation. Evolution is to geology just as dinosaurs are to oranges?

Can anyone else think of a better analogy?
 
Upvote 0

Calypsis4

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2009
564
22
Midwest USA
✟1,142.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Best wishes.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.