Why don't protestants bless Mary?

Lavendar Frog · Jul 27, 2015

Redeemer, as mentioned, is peculiar to Jesus Christ.
I don't redeem anyone when I hare the gospel. Nor do I act as a co-Redeemer. There is but one Redeemer. Nor am I a cooperating Redeemer with Jesus Christ.
She was the vessel that brought Jesus into the world. She assisted when she was a woman in the world so as to bring the plan of God to fruition. Being the mother of the Messiah.
And then she went to Heaven.
And that is all.

There is nothing in the scriptures that tell the Protestant that in Heaven there are 4 that bear witness.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 27, 2015

Open Heart said:
Asking another Christian to pray for you doesn't usurp Christ's position as mediator.

Person on earth. People joining together speaking to Jesus, the one mediator between me/us/we, and God.

Not the dead who have departed to Heaven. Word it as you wish nothing usurps the scripture that says there is one mediator between us and God.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 27, 2015

Open Heart said:
Praying to the saints doesn't qualify. Necromancy/Divination requires that you seek esoteric knowledge from the dead, like when Saul asked Samuel for information. We don't do that when we pray to the saints. We only ask for their prayers. We don't ask to hear back from them.

Necromancy is defined as talking with dead people.
Praying to dead people asking them to intercede with God on our behalf is necromancy. It does not require the condition that they talk back in order to qualify as necromancy.

Meowzltov · Jul 27, 2015

Lavendar Frog said:
Necromancy is defined as talking with dead people.

NO NO. It's MORE than that. It's Divination.

necromancy
[nek-ruh-man-see]
noun
1.
a method of divination through alleged communication with the dead;black art.
2.
magic in general, especially that practiced by a witch or sorcerer;sorcery; witchcraft; conjuration.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 27, 2015

Websters: conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

Meowzltov · Jul 27, 2015

Lavendar Frog said:
Websters: conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

RIGHT!!!! We don't do that when we pray to the saints. We just ask for their prayers. Now the saints do that when they pray to God. A saint has NO powers to influence events.

Meowzltov · Jul 27, 2015

Remember: praying to (imploring) a saint is the equivelent of asking a ANY fellow Christian for their prayers. We are ONE BODY. You cannot split the body of Christ into two parts.

Angeldove97 · Jul 28, 2015

I was part of a Protestant church from 1997 until 2005, but grew up in the Russian Orthodox Church and joined the Catholic Church in 2005. As a Protestant, my focus was on Jesus and the Bible - that's it. But I grew to miss the connection I felt to God through the Saints, icons, candles, incense, and liturgy, which brought me to the Catholic Church. For awhile I had issues with Mary after joining the Catholic Church - I wanted to stay focused just on Jesus Christ, but eventually I came to better understand the theology of Marian teachings and prayed the Rosary frequently.

I think each of us has a different path when it comes to walking with Christ - when it comes to being a Christian (being Christ-like). Some of us have our favorite Saints, besides Mary, that we pray to. Some of us stay simply focused on Jesus Christ. Neither are bad.

No Christian would poo poo the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God - besides that incubator comment that I have had heard some Christians use. However, not everyone is called to worship God in the same way. While I highly recommend a relationship with the Mother of God, I don't think I'm any more Christ-like than my Protestant brothers and sisters who choose not to have a close relationship with her.

Angeldove97 · Jul 28, 2015

I think Catholics need to be careful of claiming someone doesn't have respect and love for another because they don't do certain actions. I wouldn't claim a Catholic to NOT be Catholic just because they don't pray the Rosary. Besides the Catholic Church have a few Marian dogmas and feast days, we are not required to do anything else in regards to venerating Mary. Most Protestants have fewer dogmas about Mary that they follow.

That's just how theirs and our faith is.

Meowzltov · Jul 28, 2015

Lavandar Frog:

Be careful of the Webster definition of religious things. It tends to use the word influence too liberally. I noticed this as well, which would include PRAYER:
Full Definition of MAGIC
1
a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces
b : magic rites or incantations
2
a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source
b : something that seems to cast a spell

Usually the rule is this:
If you can MAKE the event happen, it's magic
If you are just requesting it, it's prayer

That's one of the reasons why praying to the saints is not necromancy, because you are ultimately only requesting something of God via the prayers of the saint.

Meowzltov · Jul 28, 2015

Lavendar Frog said:
Person on earth. People joining together speaking to Jesus, the one mediator between me/us/we, and God.

Not the dead who have departed to Heaven. Word it as you wish nothing usurps the scripture that says there is one mediator between us and God.

I just had a sudden intuition. You think because the saints are dead that it puts them on the level of Jesus and threatens to make them a mediator like him! You couldn't be farther from the truth. Jesus is God and the saints are just human beings. They are on par with you and me, whether they are dead or not. There is no difference between their prayers and your prayers.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 28, 2015

Open Heart said:
I just had a sudden intuition. You think because the saints are dead that it puts them on the level of Jesus and threatens to make them a mediator like him!

Um, no. With respect, that's what Catholics believe.

If my prayers are like their prayers, keeping in mind they are indeed dead, and that would include the saint Mary, why is it the prayers to them, who are "like me and you", go like this: (Just 2 examples)
Saint Anthony, Consoler of the Afflicted
Dear St. Anthony, comforting the sorrowful is a Christian duty and a work of mercy. By word, attitude, and deed I should try to brighten their days and make their burden easier to bear. St. Anthony, Consoler of the Afflicted, may I remember when helping someone in sorrow that I am helping Christ Himself. Kindly mention my pressing needs to Him. (Name you special intentions).

Prayer to St. Dymphna - Temperance
Generous St. Dymphna, like all Christ's martyrs you gained this crowning grace because you prepared for it by a life of self denial. By faithfulness in smaller things you were ready for your final trial. Please teach us by your example and help to use the good things of life so that we may not miss our chance for life eternal. Help us, too, to watch and pray for ourselves and others. Amen.

Source:Catholic Online List:Saint Prayers

These are intercessory prayers, as all prayer is. However, in the case of the CC practice, it is asking others to be the intercessor between their mortal needs and God. Rather than the only intercessor scripture talks about, the only mediator between ourselves and the Father, Christ Jesus.

It places mere mortals now departed and who have been granted the role of Saint by the mortal church on earth, to be on par with Jesus.

Meowzltov · Jul 28, 2015

Lavendar Frog said:
Um, no. With respect, that's what Catholics believe.

Oh NO NO NO. As I explained in the second half of my post, Jesus is God and the saints are only people. Thus the prayers of saints are not on par with the Mediation of Christ. Rather, there is no difference between the prayers of the saints and your own prayers.

Meowzltov · Jul 28, 2015

Lavendar Frog said:
However, in the case of the CC practice, it is asking others to be the intercessor between their mortal needs and God.

Just as you intercede on my behalf when you pray for me.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 28, 2015

Open Heart said:
Oh NO NO NO. As I explained in the second half of my post, Jesus is God and the saints are only people. Thus the prayers of saints are not on par with the Mediation of Christ. Rather, there is no difference between the prayers of the saints and your own prayers.

We're going in circles here. Thanks for your time.

Albion · Jul 28, 2015

Open Heart said:
Just as you intercede on my behalf when you pray for me.

Asking your neighbor and asking a spirit (that you assume can hear you) are far from the same thing.

Meowzltov · Jul 28, 2015

Albion said:
Asking your neighbor and asking a spirit (that you assume can hear you) are far from the same thing.

Not when they are both part of the body of Christ.

Lavendar Frog · Jul 28, 2015

Open Heart said:
Not when they are both part of the body of Christ.

The body of Christ is traditionally understood by most Christians, through the writings of Paul, to refer to the whole of the faithful on Earth.

Whereas the Saints that are recognized by the RCC have been formerly Canonized and are believed to hold the keys of the kingdom of Heaven and are in Heaven with God. Be they officially Canonized or there because of the holiness they demonstrated in life.
And then there is the veneration of Saints for all that means.

So no, praying to a RC Saint is not like joining in prayer with my best friend and offering prayers to the one and only mediator between us and God; Jesus Christ.

katerinah1947 · Jul 28, 2015

Open Heart said:
Lavandar Frog:

Be careful of the Webster definition of religious things. It tends to use the word influence too liberally. I noticed this as well, which would include PRAYER:
Full Definition of MAGIC
1
a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces
b : magic rites or incantations
2
a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source
b : something that seems to cast a spell

Usually the rule is this:
If you can MAKE the event happen, it's magic
If you are just requesting it, it's prayer

That's one of the reasons why praying to the saints is not necromancy, because you are ultimately only requesting something of God via the prayers of the saint.

Hi,
Webster is not God, therefore what it says can be close, but not used as a religious source, reliably.
For anyone to say that worship, which God defines as Love, is equal to acknowledgement, which is what veneration is in this case, with The Blessed Vigin Mary, is to not be working hard enough on the ideas.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

katerinah1947 · Jul 28, 2015

Hi,
Biblically the definition of love, is doing the will of the one, or the object you love.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Why don't protestants bless Mary?

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