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Did you read the Psalm? That is what he addressed. So if you don’t believe that psalm applies to Messiah then say so.
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Did you read the Psalm? That is what he addressed. So if you don’t believe that psalm applies to Messiah then say so.Jesus already knew that death could not hold Him, AND that He/ His Body would NOT see corruption.
This also was necessary for the plan of Redemption. (that death could not hold Him) .
1. Did Jesus carry our sins and suffer the fate due us?It's better than the other one.
Why is Jesus the Lamb of God?He suffered because he was the sacrificial Lamb. We are not sacrificial lambs nor could we possibly qualify to be.
1. Did Jesus carry our sins and suffer the fate due us?
2. What are the wages (penalty) for sin?
1. Did Jesus carry our sins and suffer the fate due us?
2. What are the wages (penalty) for sin?
That did not address the question.He died for people's sins but their fate was not to die on the cross.
Again did not address the question.The second death in the LOF.
Did you read it?
Just as I posted, Jesus already knew.... Just as the Psalms say.
Now again, what was the false statement that jm made ? (if you posted it correctly)
The issue is not whether or not Jesus knew or did not know. The question is actually did Jesus ask?Jesus asked to be saved from remaining in death, i.e., to be resurrected (Ps. 16: 9, 10). “Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered” (v. 8).
It says He learned obedience, but it doesn't say "when", or which sufferings and when those sufferings were, etc...Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”? (Hebrews 5)
The context of Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that “who, in the days of His flesh” refers back to Christ, the main subject in v. 5.
In Gethsemane, Jesus agonized and wept, but committed Himself to do the Father’s will in accepting the cup of suffering which would bring His death (Matt. 26: 38–46; Luke 22: 44, 45).
Anticipating bearing the burden of judgment for sin, Jesus felt its fullest pain and grief (Is. 52: 14; 53: 3–5, 10).
Though He bore the penalty in silence and did not seek to deliver Himself from it (Is. 53: 7), He did cry out from the agony of the fury of God’s wrath poured on His perfectly holy and obedient Person (Matt. 27: 46; 2 Cor. 5: 21).
Jesus asked to be saved from remaining in death, i.e., to be resurrected (Ps. 16: 9, 10). “Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered” (v. 8).
Christ did not need to suffer in order to conquer or correct any disobedience. In His deity (as the Son of God), He understood obedience completely. As the incarnate Lord, He humbled Himself to learn (Luke 2: 52).
He learned obedience for the same reasons He bore temptation: to confirm His humanity and experience its sufferings to the fullest (2: 10; Luke 2: 52; Phil. 2: 8). Christ’s obedience was also necessary so that He could fulfill all righteousness (Matt. 5: 13) and thus prove to be the perfect sacrifice to take the place of sinners (1 Pet. 3: 18).
He was the perfectly righteous One, whose righteousness would be imputed to sinners (Rom. 3: 24–26). “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation” (v. 9). Because of the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ and His perfect sacrifice for sin, He became the cause of salvation.
True salvation evidences itself in obedience to Christ, from the initial obedience to the gospel command to repent and believe (Acts 5: 32; Rom. 1: 5; 2 Thess. 1: 8; 1 Pet. 1: 2, 22; 4: 17) to a life pattern of obedience to the Word (Rom. 6: 16). —-John MacArthur
Jesus learned things, learned everything, the very first time He was to encounter it or them, unlike us. None of those temptations were ever repeated because their was never any desire in Him to do or commit evil or do bad, ever, unlike us, etc...It says He learned obedience, but it doesn't say "when", or which sufferings and when those sufferings were, etc...
I propose that it was long before He was even baptized, things He had to learn as a child, then later on when He became a man, and when He knew His obedience as a "son of man" was made perfect or perfected, then his obedience as a Son of God, the first (born) Son of God, was made perfect right before His ministry, right after He was baptized, then led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted by/of the Devil. I propose that it was at that point in time, after His fasting and being tempted with some of the most difficult of His or anyone's life's/lives temptations as a/the (first) (born) (by fire) (by those temptations) Son of God, that it was after that He was made perfect and perfectly complete, then He went out to do His ministry or God' work, healing's, evidence of the supernatural, proving who He was, etc, etc, etc... Teachings (wisdom) of a kind none had ever heard ever before, etc, more evidence of who He was, etc, and that He had the Spirit of the Most Holy God in Him and with Him, living and residing inside of Him, etc...
The Cross seemed to be one final test, a "revisiting" of things maybe, at what would be the moment of His greatest weakness, etc, (however He showed out and proved Himself to be anything but "weak", etc) Anyway, the Cross seemed to be one final test, to make sure I guess maybe, something that He would have to do and pass as the firstborn among men who would become the Sons of God after Him, etc...
He is the Messiah because of this, cause He never failed, never had to repeat or take any of the same kind of test over again, defeated any and all temptations at their onset, unlike so very many of us have to much of the time, but He learned perfect obedience through those tests, trials, temptations, things He had suffered in and throughout His entire life, "before" He was made perfect, (most of which happened long before He was even baptized), etc...
So you could say He was tempted in all ways as we are, but if He was actually tempted at all, it didn't last very long as He crushed and defeated them all at their onset, and they never came up again for Him, etc, unlike so many of us, etc...
At the cross some of those things might have came back to Him maybe, but He showed Himself out to be anything but weak against them, etc...
God Bless!
It says He learned obedience, but it doesn't say "when", or which sufferings and when those sufferings were, etc...
I propose that it was long before He was even baptized, things He had to learn as a child, then later on when He became a man, and when He knew His obedience as a "son of man" was made perfect or perfected, then his obedience as a Son of God, the first (born) Son of God, was made perfect right before His ministry, right after He was baptized, then led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted by/of the Devil. I propose that it was at that point in time, after His fasting and being tempted with some of the most difficult of His or anyone's life's/lives temptations as a/the (first) (born) (by fire) (by those temptations) Son of God, that it was after that He was made perfect and perfectly complete, then He went out to do His ministry or God' work, healing's, evidence of the supernatural, proving who He was, etc, etc, etc... Teachings (wisdom) of a kind none had ever heard ever before, etc, more evidence of who He was, etc, and that He had the Spirit of the Most Holy God in Him and with Him, living and residing inside of Him, etc...
The Cross seemed to be one final test, a "revisiting" of things maybe, at what would be the moment of His greatest weakness, etc, (however He showed out and proved Himself to be anything but "weak", etc) Anyway, the Cross seemed to be one final test, to make sure I guess maybe, something that He would have to do and pass as the firstborn among men who would become the Sons of God after Him, etc...
He is the Messiah because of this, cause He never failed, never had to repeat or take any of the same kind of test over again, defeated any and all temptations at their onset, unlike so very many of us have to much of the time, but He learned perfect obedience through those tests, trials, temptations, things He had suffered in and throughout His entire life, "before" He was made perfect, (most of which happened long before He was even baptized), etc...
So you could say He was tempted in all ways as we are, but if He was actually tempted at all, it didn't last very long as He crushed and defeated them all at their onset, and they never came up again for Him, etc, unlike so many of us, etc...
At the cross some of those things might have came back to Him maybe, but He showed Himself out to be anything but weak against them, etc...
God Bless!
Jesus learned things, learned everything, the very first time He was to encounter it or them, unlike us. None of those temptations were ever repeated because their was never any desire in Him to do or commit evil or do bad, ever, unlike us, etc...
They might have revisited Him at the cross, but the the largest temptations I think, at that time, were for Him to: one, "save Himself", which He very well could have done, another: curse God, or curse God to His very face, and then also, at any point in time in His life or throughout His life and ministry, to even use His power or powers just once selfishly or for self-serving gain, which He never did, but I think that might have been what the Devil might have been banking on, but, he lost, so...
Jesus endured to the point of death or dying, never cursed God, never used His power or powers selfishly or for any kind of self-serving gain, including saving Himself from death, even death on a Roman Cross...
And, I already mentioned even further evidence of who He was above also, etc...
Son of Man, and the number One Most Holy Only-Begotten Son of God, and that, from among men, the True Messiah, The pure and Holy 100% completely innocent and pure Lamb of God, The only one true perfect and Holy Sacrifice for our sins, or for the rest of us, etc, that would cover everyone for all time, etc...
He was given the place, the Highest place, that He had once before with The Father God, from before time even began, or was made, or long, long, long before any of the rest of us were even made or even thought of, be it man or angel, or be it sons of men, or Sons of God...
God Bless!
So, He was disobedient before that...?Jesus learned obedience after his Father removed supernatural protection from Jesus.
Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”? (Hebrews 5)
The context of Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that “who, in the days of His flesh” refers back to Christ, the main subject in v. 5.
In Gethsemane, Jesus agonized and wept, but committed Himself to do the Father’s will in accepting the cup of suffering which would bring His death (Matt. 26: 38–46; Luke 22: 44, 45).
Anticipating bearing the burden of judgment for sin, Jesus felt its fullest pain and grief (Is. 52: 14; 53: 3–5, 10).
Though He bore the penalty in silence and did not seek to deliver Himself from it (Is. 53: 7), He did cry out from the agony of the fury of God’s wrath poured on His perfectly holy and obedient Person (Matt. 27: 46; 2 Cor. 5: 21).
Jesus asked to be saved from remaining in death, i.e., to be resurrected (Ps. 16: 9, 10). “Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered” (v. 8).
Christ did not need to suffer in order to conquer or correct any disobedience. In His deity (as the Son of God), He understood obedience completely. As the incarnate Lord, He humbled Himself to learn (Luke 2: 52).
He learned obedience for the same reasons He bore temptation: to confirm His humanity and experience its sufferings to the fullest (2: 10; Luke 2: 52; Phil. 2: 8). Christ’s obedience was also necessary so that He could fulfill all righteousness (Matt. 5: 13) and thus prove to be the perfect sacrifice to take the place of sinners (1 Pet. 3: 18).
He was the perfectly righteous One, whose righteousness would be imputed to sinners (Rom. 3: 24–26). “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation” (v. 9). Because of the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ and His perfect sacrifice for sin, He became the cause of salvation.
True salvation evidences itself in obedience to Christ, from the initial obedience to the gospel command to repent and believe (Acts 5: 32; Rom. 1: 5; 2 Thess. 1: 8; 1 Pet. 1: 2, 22; 4: 17) to a life pattern of obedience to the Word (Rom. 6: 16). —-John MacArthur
He (Jesus) more than likely grew up knowing all (or rather most... or enough anyway) (some of it He might have discovered later on in the scriptures, etc) (and at some point discovered who He was before, before creation, before time began with His Father also) anyway, grew up knowing enough of the prophecy concerning Him, His parents probably told Him about it, about His supernatural birth, who His true Father was, the visit from the wise men from the east, etc, etc, etc...And so did He “shelf” His divine knowledge and “reacquire” it so to speak, and in so doing “relearn” it as part of “relearning” His obedience, or how did that work? I mean, His earthly parents surely did not possess greater wisdom than what He would have had, so what if they had erred, for example in their interpretation of how they were to raise Him according to a particular Scriptural text, than what would He have done? Just “go along with it” until He learned otherwise in a divine way later or maybe it doesn’t matter? I guess I have just always been curious about this. Because really, you are talking about God Himself saying He was “learning” to “obey”? imperfect mortal beings with relatively incredibly limited knowledge.
Some would say He (Jesus) was "delusional", but if that is so, how was He able to do all that He did, etc...?He (Jesus) more than likely grew up knowing all (or rather most... or enough anyway) (some of it He might have discovered later on in the scriptures, etc) (and at some point discovered who He was before, before creation, before time began with His Father also) anyway, grew up knowing enough of the prophecy concerning Him, His parents probably told Him about it, about His supernatural birth, who His true Father was, the visit from the wise men from the east, etc, etc, etc...
And I would like to note to all that it says, "In the days of His flesh", and I think that means when He was still walking in the flesh, and not the Spirit yet, IOW's before His Baptism, or as still just a Son of Man still, and not a Son of God yet (in time now)... Then I think begun a whole new set of a whole new kinds of temptations, the likes of which that the only Sons of God experience, or did or would experience, or that only they had only had experienced up to that point of His (Jesus) being there (here with us a mere man in the flesh) His immediately being led out into the wilderness by the one who impregnated His earthly mother with Himself (the Holy Spirit) to be tempted by the Devil was an important first test and first step, a kind of proving or graduation or rite of passage maybe, or whatever, as a Son of God, etc...
All the temptations that He had experienced and thwarted/defeated throughout His whole entire life, (both in the flesh as a man, and in the Spirit as a Son of God) might have revisited Him at the cross or right before having to go to the cross and while He was going through it, etc...
I am very confident that He put down all temptations very quickly and did not not have them all with Him all the time or at all times though...
But this is all highly theoretical and hypothetical though...
God Bless!
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