Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The Fathers? lol.... The slanted "cherry picked" idea of what the Fathers say? Nowhere in the consensus of the Fathers point to the RC and never will... The 4 Patriarchates did not follow the one that is Rome... I wonder who is right and who is wrong then.... think !!!
"who is he?" well.. someone from the early Churchand Christ did say, "you are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church". Everything points to the "rock" being Peter. Both the linguistics and the early church fathers.
I think he's just talking about Apostolic Succession here. That a "church" apart from the bishops is not a church. But he's not talking against the Pope.
actually, there is one visible head, the Pope. Each local parish is a representation of the entire Church. A "symbol" of it. It's sort of mystical. The Pope and the local bishop are not in competition with each other.
the quotes I provided say some important points which have not yet been addressed... the quote by St Cyprian doesn't even mention the Pope, just talks about the importance of Apostolic Succession, IMO. In the early Church, many heretics claimed to teach the truth yet they were not supported by the Bishops. So maybe St Cyprian was trying to counter them. Just an idea.
There have been bad things done on BOTH sides.
Well I am here because this is the St Justin Martyr corner, the only place to present both the Orthodox and the Catholic views and COMPARE them.
wow I think this thread is really going no where... I think I'm just going to leaveits just turning into another endless argument. I know what I believe, and you know what you believe too. We're all very opinionated it seems
God bless.
With all due respect Monica, when you supplied those quotes you did not provide links to where they could be read in their greater context. I doubt very much whether even you have made the attempt to read the full context of those quotes. Having said that, you should appreciate that it takes time and effort to put them in context and not all of the texts are available in electronic format which makes the job even harder. I work full time and have various activities to take my children to after school so it is not possible for me to simply jump in and provide a response.you say we're "cherry picking" but why is no one addressing the points in those quotes I posted..?
Where do you expect this thread to go? Seriously? Why do you Catholics come in here and prostelytize and expect us to just listen and say "wow, that is a great idea" and then apostasize and give in to your faith which we obviously view as being both heretical and schismatic?
Where do you expect this thread to go? Seriously? Why do you Catholics come in here and prostelytize and expect us to just listen and say "wow, that is a great idea" and then apostasize and give in to your faith which we obviously view as being both heretical and schismatic?
Firstly, I don't think anyone was proselytizing in this thread. It does happen to be the debate section so you can't really be surprised to see alternative opinions in here. Second, leaving the Orthodox Church is not the same as being apostate.
Here are all the quotes in context for anyone interested
1. Optatus.
He was writing against the Donatists.
here's the source: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/optatus_02_book2.htm#C2
Here's the whole thing:
II. He proves from the Cathedra Petri that the Cathedra which is the first endowment of the Church belongs to Catholics, not to Donatists.So we have proved that the Catholic Church is the Church which is spread throughout the world.
We must now mention its Adornments,27 and see where are its five Endowments (which you have said to be six 28), amongst which the CATHEDRA is the first; |65 and, since the second Endowment, which is the 'Angelus,' cannot be added unless a Bishop has sat on |66 the Cathedra,29 we must see who was the first to sit on the Cathedra, and where 30 he sat. If you do not know this, learn. If you do know, blush. Ignorance cannot be attributed to you----it follows that you know.31 For one who knows, to err is sin. Those who do not know may sometimes be pardoned.32
You cannot then deny that you do know 33 that upon Peter first 34 in the City of Rome 35 was bestowed the Episcopal Cathedra,36 on which sat Peter, the Head of all the Apostles (for which reason he was called Cephas 37), |67 that, in this one Cathedra, unity should be preserved by all,38 lest the other Apostles might claim----each for himself----separate Cathedras, so that he who should set up a second Cathedra against the unique Cathedra 39 would already be a schismatic and a sinner. |68
Well then, on the one Cathedra, which is the first of the Endowments, Peter was the first to sit.40
III. The Succession of Bishops of Rome.To Peter succeeded Linus, to Linus succeeded Clement, to Clement Anacletus, to Anacletus Evaristus, to Evaristus 41 Sixtus, to Sixtus Telesphorus, to Telesphorus Hyginus, to Hyginus Anacetus, to Anacetus Pius, to Pius Soter, to Soter Alexander, to Alexander Victor, to Victor Zephyrinus, to Zephyrinus Calixtus, to Calixtus Urban, to Urban Pontianus, to Pontianus Anterus, to Anterus Fabian, to Fabian Cornelius, to Cornelius Lucius, to Lucius Stephen, to Stephen Sixtus, to Sixtus Dionysius, to Dionysius Felix, to Felix Marcellinus, to Marcellinus Eusebius, to Eusebius Miltiades, to Miltiades Silvester, to Silvester Marcus, |69 to Marcus Julius, to Julius Liberius, to Liberius Damasus, to Damasus Siricius,42 who to-day is our colleague, with whom 'the whole world,' 43 through the intercourse of letters of peace,44 agrees with us in one bond of communion.45
Now do you show the origin of your Cathedra,46you who wish to claim the Holy Church for yourselves!
the rest is more about the Donatists than about the Church.
Firstly, I don't think anyone was proselytizing in this thread. It does happen to be the debate section so you can't really be surprised to see alternative opinions in here. Second, leaving the Orthodox Church is not the same as being apostate. When you post things like this that have absolutely no useful information or argument, but just more unwarranted jabs at other Christians, can you not see why nobody seems to listen to your opinions?
'
Thank you for the quote mines ....
You just proved my point....
All these quotes are fine and good, but I just don't see any action taken by Rome or the Other Patriarchs before the schism to confirm these quotes. The Pope wasn't at a few of the councils and just sent delegates, later accepting the councils as ecumenical.... This doesn't sound like a man who is the sole head of church to me, he would need to be at his own councils for them to be ecumenical.
e Pope wasn't at a few of the councils ...
The schism was theological not political... The papacy is political... cause the Pope was a leader of his own state do not try to piggybag this one on us... The four Patriarchates were together cause no where in the ecclesioology of the Fathers the word supremacy ever came up neither infalability.... You cannot fool all the people all the time whether you use quote mines or not.. BTW.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?