Why do you have a problem with homosexuality?

TheFathersDaughter · Sep 9, 2007

Ishida said:
Let's see...
If it was the will of the Father to abstain from homosexuality, People would say it is NOT the Father's will to abstain from homosexuality. Maybe to the extent of saying that "That is not the Father!" or perhaps "There is no Father!" or claim the Father to be evil.

If it were the Father's will to not have to abstain from homosexuality, I suppose we'd have alot more "fundies" running around.

That's a bit of jumping to conclusions. Let's say homosexuality is a sin, but then, what if a lot of things we do are sins and we just don't know it. To say "What if..." would require you to say "What if..." to everything. There are lots of harmful things in the world not described in the Bible because they are modern, and most of us shake them off as nothing. We assume only things with a connection could be sin when it's possible a lot of what we do is sin. But since the Bible, inspired by God or not, was still written by man, they wouldn't cover things like TVs, computers, cars, or anything to that extent.

So say you get to heaven and God says you were sinning because you were watching TV and harming the eyes which God created for you because of staring into that light.

There's a world of "What ifs". But that's what atheists study. I believe in What Is. And right now, God is. And right now, God is telling me that my sexuality shouldn't stand in the way of my testimony or my desire to share it.

invisible trousers · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Hi there Invisible trousers!
What do you think the will of God is?

Probably not something any of us can conclusively determine.

Apollo Celestio · Sep 10, 2007

I was answering the question posed in the original post of this topic. Then I answered another question posted by you and Ms. Ohioprof.

TheFathersDaughter said:
So say you get to heaven and God says you were sinning because you were watching TV and harming the eyes which God created for you because of staring into that light.

I'd be screwed,to hell with me. But that's like saying you'll go to hell for just going outside when you have sensitive skin...

Apollo Celestio · Sep 10, 2007

What do you think of Jesus and the Bible? Out of our reach? Nothing we can really know? There is no malicious intent in these words.

TheFathersDaughter · Sep 10, 2007

Ishida said:
I was answering the question posed in the original post of this topic. Then I answered another question posted by you and Ms. Ohioprof.

I'd be screwed,to hell with me. But that's like saying you'll go to hell for just going outside when you have sensitive skin...

No, just going out into the sun. But either way, What If or "Well just to be careful" isn't something you ask in Christianity because you never really know. But that's why God offers us forgiveness.

invisible trousers · Sep 10, 2007

What do you think of Jesus and the Bible? Out of our reach? Nothing we can really know? There is no malicious intent in these words.

What? None of your suggestions relate to anything I've posted

I don't know, I just think it's pretty ridiculous to ask questions like "What if the will of God happens to coincide with my preconceived beliefs about human sexuality?"

LunarPlexus · Sep 10, 2007

Ishida said:
I was answering the question posed in the original post of this topic. Then I answered another question posted by you and Ms. Ohioprof.

I'd be screwed,to hell with me. But that's like saying you'll go to hell for just going outside when you have sensitive skin...

I think her point was more about the What Ifs rather than the hypothetical sin.

Ohioprof · Sep 10, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
That isn't true. Were called to have perseverance and be diligent with painstaking effort.

I am not sure what you are referring to here. I live my life with a great deal of diligent, painstaking effort. Try being a parent, especially a single parent like me, and you'll see what I mean.

Ohioprof · Sep 10, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Something we call beautiful and moral is not always the will of God. An example is my twin brother, which I posted above.

And maybe it really IS the will of God, and your judgment against it is standing in the way of your seeing that.

Apollo Celestio · Sep 10, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
No, just going out into the sun. But either way, What If or "Well just to be careful" isn't something you ask in Christianity because you never really know. But that's why God offers us forgiveness.

What if? Hmm, maybe it dosen't work. But here we're talking about an issue where there isn't a "what if".

Invisible Trousers said:
What? None of your suggestions relate to anything I've posted

I don't know, I just think it's pretty ridiculous to ask questions like "What if the will of God happens to coincide with my preconceived beliefs about human sexuality?"

I think the answer the OP is looking for is that "would you renounce homosexuality for God if you KNEW it was wrong?" But I guess you wouldn't get an answer out of anyone.

Invisible Trousers said:
Probably not something any of us can conclusively determine.

I saw this and that is why I asked.

Ohioprof · Sep 10, 2007

Ishida said:
What if? Hmm, maybe it dosen't work. But here we're talking about an issue where there isn't a "what if".

I think the answer the OP is looking for is that "would you renounce homosexuality for God if you KNEW it was wrong?" But I guess you wouldn't get an answer out of anyone.

I saw this and that is why I asked.

The answer is that it isn't wrong, and so why ask the question in the first place?

If you knew that being a woman was against God's will, would you renounce being a woman?

That's how much sense the question about "homosexuality" makes.

Zaac · Sep 10, 2007

Ohioprof said:
"We" shall do nothing, and we shall let gay people be who we are and accept gay people as we are.

UnBiblical

"We" shall not judge gay people or throw stones at gay people. "We" shall leave gay people alone.

unBiblical

The only people who have a problem with "homosexuality" are those who are obsessed with telling gay people that we have a problem.

You do. It's called sin. But you're in the company of everyone else. You just don't think your sin is sin.

Gay people do not have a problem.

Sure they do. It's still called sin.

The people with a problem are those who persist in judging gay people and throwing stones at gay people.

That almost sounds Biblical. Amazing how you tend to accept those parts of the Bible written by as you say "fallible men" that you think support you in your sin.

Ohioprof · Sep 10, 2007

Zaac said:
UnBiblical

unBiblical

You do. It's called sin. But you're in the company of everyone else. You just don't think your sin is sin.

Sure they do. It's still called sin.

That almost sounds Biblical. Amazing how you tend to accept those parts of the Bible written by as you say "fallible men" that you think support you in your sin.

You continue to accuse me of "sin." What "sin" do you imagine that I engage in? If you are going to claim that I "sin," you need to say what sin this is that you are accusing me of. How can I answer your claims that I seek "support" for my "sin" when you won't tell me what "sin" you are accusing me of committing?

So tell me, please. What "sin" do you imagine that I commit and for which you think I seek support?

LLWHA · Sep 10, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
The will of the father for me is to not fornicate and have pre-marital sexual relations with my girlfriend and to lust and touch and set my mind on sexual things, yet, that is what my body craves. I find it unfair I have to do the will of the father and give up these things and wait years to become married to my girlfriend, yet, because I love the Father, I am willing to give them up because it is according to his will.

I do not think you should wait.

I do not think the Bible tells you to wait and put yourselves through misery.

Get married.

I do not advise getting a permission slip from the state.

Do your own contract.

Ohioprof · Sep 10, 2007

LLWHA said:
I do not think you should wait.

I do not think the Bible tells you to wait and put yourselves through misery.

Get married.

I do not advise getting a permission slip from the state.

Do your own contract.

Would you say the same thing to a gay couple?

In John's case, he is arguing that he has to wait to have sex in order to do God's will. But, if we accept John's interpretation of the Bible, gay people can NEVER have sex with anyone. It's not a matter of waiting a few years; some Christians are telling us that we have to wait until we are dead and NEVER enjoy sexual intimacy with anyone.

It's just plain unfair of some Christians to insist on lifelong celibacy for gay people without being willing to impose that rule on themselves.

RMDY · Sep 11, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Plenty of people have sex before marriage. Probably most people do. Why do you need to run around labeling your brother's sexual relationship prior to marriage a "sin" if worked out well for everyone? Why are you sticking your nose into other people's relationships and judging them? They didn't ask whether you think it's a sin, so why can't you just mind your own business?

If you don't believe in having sex outside of marriage, then don't have sex outside of marriage. But you don't need to sit around and judge other people.

Did you know the Spirit labels fornication a sin. You should know this.

RMDY · Sep 11, 2007

Ohioprof said:
What difference does it make whether your brother had sex before he got married or not? Instead of labeling it a "sin," why can't you just be supportive and happy for the couple and their child?

Who labeled it a sin? Me or the Spirit? Galatians 5 speaks for itself.

RMDY · Sep 11, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
What if he doesn't?

Denying who you are is not directly a sin but it almost always leads to furthur sin, to further pain which draws you away from God. Pain that you inflict on yourself is the hardest to cure. God doesn't forgive you for no reason. If you're in such a situation that to change is to destroy yourself then how can you possible say you must get into that position. And I don't mean physically. In God we may risk ourselves but we risk nothing but our body. But denying something as natural as skin color, we put ourselves into a position of self loathing, wondering why we can't be like everyone else. Wondering why we can't change and being fraught with the haunting words of everyone who tells us if we don't change we're going to hell. For the person who can't change, that's a little frightening.

Believe it or not, sin isn't something you just step away from no matter what sin it is. But when it's only perceived as a sin then it's even worse. It's no different than telling someone they're going to hell for being left handed.

Living for the glory of God is more important than having sexual relationships with people.

RMDY · Sep 11, 2007

invisible trousers said:
Probably not something any of us can conclusively determine.

Friend, why do you believe it is not something any of us can conclusively determine?

RMDY · Sep 11, 2007

Ohioprof said:
I am not sure what you are referring to here. I live my life with a great deal of diligent, painstaking effort. Try being a parent, especially a single parent like me, and you'll see what I mean.

(New American Standard Bible)

Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge
2 Peter 1:5

And in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness
2 Peter 1:6

Diligence:
n.1. Earnest and persistent application to an undertaking; steady effort; assiduity.
2. Attentive care; heedfulness.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/diligence

And What is perseverence?
n.1. Steady persistence in adhering to a course of action, a belief, or a purpose; steadfastness.

And what course of action and beliefs should you be steadfast towards? Walking in the Spirit of course!
For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. (Galatians 5:13)

When we apply this diligence, it is talking about painstaking effort in walking according to the Spirit:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

Why do you have a problem with homosexuality?

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