Why do you have a problem with homosexuality?

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

1 Corinthians 6:19

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

Romans 12:1

Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
With mercy.

Now the question I have is:

If God looks upon Gay people with mercy and forgiveness, and his will is for them to become new creations born of the Spirit fleeing from immorality, then a sacrifice has to be made....

No sacrifice has to be made. There is no "immorality" in being gay. That's my answer. Gay people should be accepted just as heterosexuals are, and our marriages should be legal and should be honored just as the marriages of heterosexuals are. And we will all live happily ever after. The end.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

Romans 12:1

Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to Godthis is your spiritual act of worship.

Loving our spouses IS pleasing to God. Of that I have no doubt.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Yes, but what if it is the will of the Father that you must? That is what I am asking. I am not condemning what any of you do, accusing any of you of anything, judging any of you. I am just asking a question and I want to discuss it: What if the will of the father is to abstain from something you don't believe is immoral, but really is according to the will of the Father?

And what if the moon is made of green cheese? You are inventing an imaginary scenario. It makes no sense. Being gay is not immoral, and imagining that it is is like insisting, "But what if the moon is made of green cheese?" It's not, and so the question is pointless.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ohioprof said:
No sacrifice has to be made. There is no "immorality" in being gay. That's my answer. Gay people should be accepted just as heterosexuals are, and our marriages should be legal and should be honored just as the marriages of heterosexuals are. And we will all live happily ever after. The end.

But the question begs to differ: What if your beliefs are not according to the will of God? Then what?

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ohioprof said:
And what if the moon is made of green cheese? You are inventing an imaginary scenario. It makes no sense. Being gay is not immoral, and imagining that it is is like insisting, "But what if the moon is made of green cheese?" It's not, and so the question is pointless.

That's not true, and We don't always understand why God does things.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
I didn't decide, but suggested, since I believe pornia includes a wide-variety of sins, including things I use to did that I wouldn't give up if it weren't for our command to walk in the Spirit and love God.

And am I really judging you? I've given you a verse and suggested an interpretation for it. I don't call that judging. I never slapped you with a judgment by saying "Ohioprof, you have...." or "Ohioprof, what your doing is....."
I suggested to all who reads my posts, not one particular person, that the will of God is such and such and what shall we do if this is true?

I left it up to everyone to meditate on it. I posted what I believe, why, and suggested what I believe the will of the father to be, but, is that so wrong? I don't hate gay people Ohioprof. Jesus teaches us to love others, and that is a fruit of the Spirit. It won't make sense for me to not love others and have mercy. After all, I want mercy from God too! Jesus teaches us the merciful shall receive mercy. I admit to you that when I first came on these forums I was a hypocritical sinner who was prejudice and did not focus on walking according to the Spirit and was full of pride. I confess this to you. But I ask you to please....do not look upon me as if I am casting stones at you. Perhaps the word of God strikes your heart because God is presenting using me to present it this way to you?

Ohioprof, I do not hate you. Not once on this forum have I ever made an effort to bring up things about your life to make a point against you. You have told me you are gay, didn't you? I have not said your going to burn in hell. I have not said you aren't saved. When you said you walk according to the Spirit the last two days or so, I did not make an effort to challenge you on how you walked in the Spirit. I did not challenge your beliefs. I did not question the fact you don't have a christian symbol on your profile and I didn't ask if you were even a christian.

You think I am out to condemn and throw stones? I am more concerned with the fact that wiccan child is a pagen who disbelieves in Jesus and God and feels God is evil. Not once did I ever bring up anything he believes and go on the offence about him. If you see what I've been posting lately, it has been that I believe God loves him despite those things and has a big plan for him!

And God loves you too!

Again, I have never accused you of hating us. I know you don't. You seem to be a well-meaning person and a kind person. Pre-judging others is not the same as hating them. It's making a judgment of people without knowing them. Perhaps the term "prejudice" is too volatile in its implications. Perhaps I should not use this term and I should instead say that you harbor preconceptions about gay people, assumptions that are based on little or no knowledge of gay people. I am not saying that you harbor ill will toward us or toward anyone. I am saying rather that you are starting with erroneous assumptions about us. That's not a character flaw; it's lack of knowledge, in my view.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
That's not true, and We don't always understand why God does things.

So why do you assume that being gay is immoral? If you really don't know.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

I have to go read to my daughter now. Good evening, John and others.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Pre-judging others is not the same as hating them. It's making a judgment of people without knowing them.

You are the one who told me you are gay and your the one who said you do not believe homosexuality is a sin. Your the one who told me you walk in the Spirit, believe in Christ, ect,ect,ect.
I did not prejudge you on anything.

I only suggested to you that pornia is a sin and that the will of the father is to abstain from it. I also suggested that homosexuality is included, to what I believe, and suggested if it really is the will of the father, then what shall we do? I do not call this prejudging.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
But the question begs to differ: What if your beliefs are not according to the will of God? Then what?

Then that's my problem and not yours. But I'm not worried about it. I don't regard faith as a set of beliefs; I regard faith as a practice. Now I must read to my child.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

...or throwing stones

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ohioprof said:
So why do you assume that being gay is immoral? If you really don't know.

If this helps with some confusion: I believe homosexuality is not of the Spirit. If we are commanded to walk in the Spirit, we must have self-control and do the will of the father and not our own. Paul teaches our bodies belong to God and not ourselves when we present to ourselves to God as a holy sacrifice, a spiritual one, with God dwelling his Spirit within us, we must flee from all forms of sexual immorality.

If this helps:

My mother brought my brother up to be a moral person:

He doesn't kill anyone, he tries not to lie, he tries not to steal, and he doesn't believe in worshipping false Gods, ect, ect, ect.

But he committed fornication with his now newly wed-wife just before they became married and now they are having a child. I suggested to him and my family it was a sin, but at the time I didn't know why. But now I know what they did was fornication.

In their eyes, what he did was a moral and beautiful thing, despite my mother being a Catholic and believing in having morales.

Is what they did right even though it appears to be a beautiful and loving thing to have a child before marriage? No, it isn't. It isn't God's will to fornicate before marriage despite the good things that happen. That is not his will.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Then that's my problem and not yours. But I'm not worried about it. I don't regard faith as a set of beliefs; I regard faith as a practice. Now I must read to my child.

That isn't true. Were called to have perseverance and be diligent with painstaking effort.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Something we call beautiful and moral is not always the will of God. An example is my twin brother, which I posted above.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
If this helps with some confusion: I believe homosexuality is not of the Spirit. If we are commanded to walk in the Spirit, we must have self-control and do the will of the father and not our own. Paul teaches our bodies belong to God and not ourselves when we present to ourselves to God as a holy sacrifice, a spiritual one, with God dwelling his Spirit within us, we must flee from all forms of sexual immorality.

If this helps:

My mother brought my brother up to be a moral person:

He doesn't kill anyone, he tries not to lie, he tries not to steal, and he doesn't believe in worshipping false Gods, ect, ect, ect.

But he committed fornication with his now newly wed-wife just before they became married and now they are having a child. I suggested to him and my family it was a sin, but at the time I didn't know why. But now I know what they did was fornication.

In their eyes, what he did was a moral and beautiful thing, despite my mother being a Catholic and believing in having morales.

Is what they did right even though it appears to be a beautiful and loving thing to have a child before marriage? No, it isn't. It isn't God's will to fornicate before marriage despite the good things that happen. That is not his will.

Plenty of people have sex before marriage. Probably most people do. Why do you need to run around labeling your brother's sexual relationship prior to marriage a "sin" if worked out well for everyone? Why are you sticking your nose into other people's relationships and judging them? They didn't ask whether you think it's a sin, so why can't you just mind your own business?

If you don't believe in having sex outside of marriage, then don't have sex outside of marriage. But you don't need to sit around and judge other people.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Something we call beautiful and moral is not always the will of God. An example is my twin brother, which I posted above.

What difference does it make whether your brother had sex before he got married or not? Instead of labeling it a "sin," why can't you just be supportive and happy for the couple and their child?

TheFathersDaughter · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
What if God considers homosexuality to be immoral, then what? What shall we do? Were commanded to flee from immorality. This has nothing to do with throwing stones, but doing the will of God.

I didn't point any fingers at anyone but just point out something were commanded to do.

So then what shall we do?

(Please note, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I am just point out something were told to flee from)

This is a discussion about the will of God, not about christians condemning each other.

What if he doesn't?

Denying who you are is not directly a sin but it almost always leads to furthur sin, to further pain which draws you away from God. Pain that you inflict on yourself is the hardest to cure. God doesn't forgive you for no reason. If you're in such a situation that to change is to destroy yourself then how can you possible say you must get into that position. And I don't mean physically. In God we may risk ourselves but we risk nothing but our body. But denying something as natural as skin color, we put ourselves into a position of self loathing, wondering why we can't be like everyone else. Wondering why we can't change and being fraught with the haunting words of everyone who tells us if we don't change we're going to hell. For the person who can't change, that's a little frightening.

Believe it or not, sin isn't something you just step away from no matter what sin it is. But when it's only perceived as a sin then it's even worse. It's no different than telling someone they're going to hell for being left handed.

TheFathersDaughter · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
If this helps with some confusion: I believe homosexuality is not of the Spirit. If we are commanded to walk in the Spirit, we must have self-control and do the will of the father and not our own. Paul teaches our bodies belong to God and not ourselves when we present to ourselves to God as a holy sacrifice, a spiritual one, with God dwelling his Spirit within us, we must flee from all forms of sexual immorality.

If this helps:

My mother brought my brother up to be a moral person:

He doesn't kill anyone, he tries not to lie, he tries not to steal, and he doesn't believe in worshipping false Gods, ect, ect, ect.

But he committed fornication with his now newly wed-wife just before they became married and now they are having a child. I suggested to him and my family it was a sin, but at the time I didn't know why. But now I know what they did was fornication.

In their eyes, what he did was a moral and beautiful thing, despite my mother being a Catholic and believing in having morales.

Is what they did right even though it appears to be a beautiful and loving thing to have a child before marriage? No, it isn't. It isn't God's will to fornicate before marriage despite the good things that happen. That is not his will.

If they were planning to get married I don't really see the matter. It would be different if they were only together for the sake of not being alone or if it were a brand new relationship, not heading in any relationship. Marriage is just a ceremony anyways. Symbolism. The true marriage comes in the confession of love before God, which you don't need a minister, a ring and a giant cake to preform. Just because it was done in the Bible means nothing, because there is no verse that says "Thou shalt be married before a minister".

So if thats your example, it's a bad one.

Apollo Celestio · Sep 9, 2007

Let's see...
If it was the will of the Father to abstain from homosexuality, People would say it is NOT the Father's will to abstain from homosexuality. Maybe to the extent of saying that "That is not the Father!" or perhaps "There is no Father!" or claim the Father to be evil.

If it were the Father's will to not have to abstain from homosexuality, I suppose we'd have alot more "fundies" running around.

Why do you have a problem with homosexuality?

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