Why do you have a problem with homosexuality?

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

davedjy said:
A sexual orientation to the same sex is hardly the same thing as bestiality. We are talking about 2 adult humans, not a man and an animal.

If the will of the Father is to abstain from immorality, and homosexuality is included in that, sexual orientation won't matter, but doing the will of the Father will matter.

And yes, I am aware we are talking about two adults. You suggested Jesus doesn't discuss homosexuality, well, I also suggested Jesus doesn't talk about beastiality, and in conclusion, I suggested that although both aren't discussed, despite being different, they are both immorality.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
I merely asked, what if the will of the father was to flee from immorality?
I suggested the greek word for pornia includes homosexuality.

So what shall we do if this is true?

Beastiality is not mentioned once in the new testament, yet its a sin. Perhaps it is not since Jesus failed to mention it? The closest thing to knowing it is a sin is through Jesus usage of pornia.

You should do nothing. It's not your business to judge gay people. It may be the will of the father to "flee from immorality," but being gay is NOT immorality, and it's not for YOU to decide that we are immoral. I recommend opening your mind and listening to gay people without judging us. You will then have the chance to learn something about our lives.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
If the will of the Father is to abstain from immorality, and homosexuality is included in that, sexual orientation won't matter, but doing the will of the Father will matter.

And yes, I am aware we are talking about two adults. You suggested Jesus doesn't discuss homosexuality, well, I also suggested Jesus doesn't talk about beastiality, and in conclusion, I suggested that although both aren't discussed, despite being different, they are both immorality.

There you go judging us again, and comparing our love relationships, our precious love relationships, with "bestiality." Suppose I started comparing YOUR marriage to bestiality. And telling you that your marriage is immoral, just like bestiality is immoral. Would you like that?

davedjy · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
If the will of the Father is to abstain from immorality, and homosexuality is included in that, sexual orientation won't matter, but doing the will of the Father will matter.

And yes, I am aware we are talking about two adults. You suggested Jesus doesn't discuss homosexuality, well, I also suggested Jesus doesn't talk about beastiality, and in conclusion, I suggested that although both aren't discussed, despite being different, they are both immorality.

You aren't even making a credible debate point, they are immorality, in your religious unbacked opinion.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
How can I be prejudice if I believe the will of the father is to flee from immorality and at the same time, I don't hate homosexuals?

When I said, ,
this can also be said of everyone else.

Concerning prejudice, is it prejudice if I suggest what pornia means and apply it to the fathers will to abstain from immorality?

I also suggested an open ended question, "What if it is the will of the father to abstain from what I suggested pornia to be?"

I didn't judge, condemn, or accuse anyone here, but am discussing the will of the Father.

You are "discussing" what you have already decided is "the will of the father." Please be honest. You have already decided to judge gay people. This is obvious from the nature of your question, which is not open at all. What if the will of the father is to accept gay people as we are? How about asking THAT question? Prejudice is not a form of hate, though in some people it can lead to hate. Prejudice is making a pre-judgement, a judgment of people without listening to or knowing about the people you are judging. You have judged gay people on the basis of your interpretation of a book, without listening to the people you are judging. We all probably harbor prejudices without always being aware of them. That doesn't mean we hate the people toward whom we harbor prejudice, but it does mean we have formed judgments of them without listening to them or getting to know them. Prejudice is not the same as hate. It may simply be lack of knowledge and lack of awareness.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ohioprof said:
You should do nothing. It's not your business to judge gay people. It may be the will of the father to "flee from immorality," but being gay is NOT immorality, and it's not for YOU to decide that we are immoral. I recommend opening your mind and listening to gay people without judging us. You will then have the chance to learn something about our lives.

I didn't decide, but suggested, since I believe pornia includes a wide-variety of sins, including things I use to did that I wouldn't give up if it weren't for our command to walk in the Spirit and love God.

And am I really judging you? I've given you a verse and suggested an interpretation for it. I don't call that judging. I never slapped you with a judgment by saying "Ohioprof, you have...." or "Ohioprof, what your doing is....."
I suggested to all who reads my posts, not one particular person, that the will of God is such and such and what shall we do if this is true?

I left it up to everyone to meditate on it. I posted what I believe, why, and suggested what I believe the will of the father to be, but, is that so wrong? I don't hate gay people Ohioprof. Jesus teaches us to love others, and that is a fruit of the Spirit. It won't make sense for me to not love others and have mercy. After all, I want mercy from God too! Jesus teaches us the merciful shall receive mercy. I admit to you that when I first came on these forums I was a hypocritical sinner who was prejudice and did not focus on walking according to the Spirit and was full of pride. I confess this to you. But I ask you to please....do not look upon me as if I am casting stones at you. Perhaps the word of God strikes your heart because God is presenting using me to present it this way to you?

Ohioprof, I do not hate you. Not once on this forum have I ever made an effort to bring up things about your life to make a point against you. You have told me you are gay, didn't you? I have not said your going to burn in hell. I have not said you aren't saved. When you said you walk according to the Spirit the last two days or so, I did not make an effort to challenge you on how you walked in the Spirit. I did not challenge your beliefs. I did not question the fact you don't have a christian symbol on your profile and I didn't ask if you were even a christian.

You think I am out to condemn and throw stones? I am more concerned with the fact that wiccan child is a pagen who disbelieves in Jesus and God and feels God is evil. Not once did I ever bring up anything he believes and go on the offence about him. If you see what I've been posting lately, it has been that I believe God loves him despite those things and has a big plan for him!

And God loves you too!

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

davedjy said:
You aren't even making a credible debate point, they are immorality, in your religious unbacked opinion.

Did you read Galatians 5? It says that self-control and pornia is not of the Spirit. Jesus teaches that pornia is evil that originates from the heart. So this is not credible?

davedjy · Sep 9, 2007

What is the question or idea of this thread? What does the OP hope to accomplish?

For those of us who are gay or lesbian, we disagree on the immorality idea. If the idea is to ask us why we won't abstain, it's because we don't believe it is a sin.

Does that answer your question, JohnChapter14?

davedjy · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Did you read Galatians 5? It says that self-control and pornia is not of the Spirit. Jesus teaches that pornia is evil that originates from the heart. So this is not credible?

No, because it does not directly relate to homosexuality.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ohioprof said:
There you go judging us again, and comparing our love relationships, our precious love relationships, with "bestiality." Suppose I started comparing YOUR marriage to bestiality. And telling you that your marriage is immoral, just like bestiality is immoral. Would you like that?

I didn't say anything about your love relationships. I didn't compare anything to beastiality. You missed my point.

Jesus also didn't say it was a sin to consult mediums. Jesus also didn't say laziness was a sin. Jesus didn't also lay the rules for many things: including military service, capital punishment, second baptism, ect.
Jesus didn't say a lot of things that we all wonder about.

So just because Jesus didn't say so doesn't mean it isn't right.

That was the point I was making. I was not comparing anything to anything.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

davedjy said:
What is the question or idea of this thread? What does the OP hope to accomplish?

For those of us who are gay or lesbian, we disagree on the immorality idea. If the idea is to ask us why we won't abstain, it's because we don't believe it is a sin.

Does that answer your question, JohnChapter14?

Yes, but what if it is the will of the Father that you must? That is what I am asking. I am not condemning what any of you do, accusing any of you of anything, judging any of you. I am just asking a question and I want to discuss it: What if the will of the father is to abstain from something you don't believe is immoral, but really is according to the will of the Father?

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

davedjy said:
No, because it does not directly relate to homosexuality.

Yes it does. What if pornia really is defined to include homosexuality. Then that would make the will of the father to be that we abstain from it, wouldn't it?

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Ok everyone, lets put all prejudice behind us and discuss the issue: What shall we do if the will of the father is for us to abstain from immorality and this includes homosexuality?

The will of the father is not what we always expect. For example, the Jews believed the will of the father in regards to Messiah was to bring an earthly king that would put all their enemies under their feet. But to their disappointment, they couldn't accept what the will of the Father about Jesus really was.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
I didn't say anything about your love relationships. I didn't compare anything to beastiality. You missed my point.

Jesus also didn't say it was a sin to consult mediums. Jesus also didn't say laziness was a sin. Jesus didn't also lay the rules for many things: including military service, capital punishment, second baptism, ect.
Jesus didn't say a lot of things that we all wonder about.

So just because Jesus didn't say so doesn't mean it isn't right.

That was the point I was making. I was not comparing anything to anything.

Then why bring up "bestiality" in a discussion about gay people?

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

The will of the father goes beyond human understanding. For example, the birth of Jesus and all his miracles defy human nature, doesn't it?
If we use human reasoning to understand it, we can't! For this reason, human reasoning can't understand the will of the Father! Only Spiritual understanding can. We as humans are baffled by a Virgin birth, Jesus dying on a cross and defying nature by being resurrected by God, turning water into wine, feeding over 3000 people with less than only a few loaves of bread and fish, prophecy that predicts the comming Messiah, Jesus walking on water, Jesus raising the dead, God creating everything in "7 days", the power of God that worked in Moses to kill first-born sons, turning the water to blood, ect.

God is miraculous, wonderful, loving. He does things extrordinary and with human reasoning, you cannot explain them and know why.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Then why bring up "bestiality" in a discussion about gay people?

I am not relating homosexuality to beastiality (sorry if I offended anyone with this), but mentioned is an example of a sin not mentioned by Jesus. Jesus doesn't mention a lot of things.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Ok everyone, lets put all prejudice behind us and discuss the issue: What shall we do if the will of the father is for us to abstain from immorality and this includes homosexuality?

The will of the father is not what we always expect. For example, the Jews believed the will of the father in regards to Messiah was to bring an earthly king that would put all their enemies under their feet. But to their disappointment, they couldn't accept what the will of the Father about Jesus really was.

The very phrasing of your question reflects anti-gay prejudice, my friend. You assume with your question that being gay is "immoral." That's not an assumption that I as a gay person agree to. I don't agree with the assumption embedded in your question. It would be like me starting a thread in which I asked, "What if the will of the father is for people to reject immoral faiths, including Christianity?" Such a question would have an assumption embedded in it that Christianity is immoral, and I as a Christian would be upset by such a question. If you want to ask a truly open question, why not ask, "How do people think God looks upon gay people?" That question assumes neither morality nor immorality. It is neutral and open.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

Jesus also doesn't mention that slavery is wrong, but commanded that we all submit to authorities and love each other as ourselves. I believe slavery is a sin. Jesus also taught us to give thieves our belongings if they try to take them from us.

Ohioprof · Sep 9, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
I am not relating homosexuality to beastiality (sorry if I offended anyone with this), but mentioned is an example of a sin not mentioned by Jesus. Jesus doesn't mention a lot of things.

The implication in this is that being gay is a "sin" like bestiality. I don't agree that being gay is a sin. I don't see any evidence that Jesus regarded being gay as a sin. He was silent about this. Silence means.....silence.

RMDY · Sep 9, 2007

"How do people think God looks upon gay people?

With mercy.

Now the question I have is:

If God looks upon Gay people with mercy and forgiveness, and his will is for them to become new creations born of the Spirit fleeing from immorality, then a sacrifice has to be made....

Why do you have a problem with homosexuality?

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