Why do they hate the First Amendment?

Funny Fundie · Nov 4, 2008

tcampen said:
Fundi,
Take it from someone who lived in D.C. for several years and visited the places you mention many times. I studied law there and became more
appreciative of the founding of our nation than ever before. I came to understand our founders were very religious people, but their religious diversity was much greater than what religious-right revisionists would have school children believe.

Our founders were rarely the fundamentalists we observe today. Many were practicing christians and held to orthodoxy, but many others clearly rejected the diety of Jesus, the direct involvement of god into our lives, and the infallibility of the bible. But universally, almost none of them advocated for Christianity being recognized as the official state religion. Even the most devote were fearful of it. Read Madison and his views on the 1st Amendment. Read John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, neither of whom were Christian. Look at the practices and statements of George Washington, who in all probability was a deist himself, as was Lincoln.

If you look at the Declaration of Independence, you'll find references to "nature's God" - a clear ode to the deistic concept of god revealed by nature and reason, NOT the bible or any other religious text. This is the god our founders agreed to recognize as a group, not the specific Judeo-Christian model.

I'll agree with you that some have become hypersensitive to the invocation of God in the public square. But the god promoted in modern times is never "nature's god", but the god of the bible. I have no doubt our founders would cringe at the attempts of a few to use the public square to promote their very particular religious views to the many.

Jefferson, in particular, is already rolling over in his grave.

So what we have on this message board then is a united secularist community: all have participated in this thread and all have cast their vote in favor of our Founding Fathers being somewhat non-Fundie.

Can I get a witness?

OK then. Knowing that, it becomes clear that the secualrists of today are going beyond the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, who clearly wanted religious displays on federal property.
Our Founding Fathers wanted religious displays on Federal property.

Thus it becomes clear to the dull-witted (secularist) that the First Amendment was broad enough (or should be interpreted to be broad) to allow such displays on Federal property. Therefore: Any secularist who disagrees with this, and disagrees with the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, hates the First Amendment.

You secularists can lie. You can distort truths. You can abhor justice. But you cannot and shall not remove displays of a Judeo-Chrisitan nature from Federal property. Doing so must result of a stripped citezenship. But if it were that easy.

OphidiaPhile · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
I'd rank this as your typical secular/non-Christian posting: defend a failing stance no matter how false or misleading.

It also tells us that when it comes to casting our votes, we must always vote Christians into office, because the Christian may or may not lie, but non-Christians (as this post proves) always lie. They will invest tremendous energies in their defense of their lies. For this reason we must always vote in Christianity and ethics; never vote in a skeptic or secularist.

SO Abraham Lincoln was a poor president because he was an atheist, interesting. I do not lie, I use logic and expect others to do the same, emotion is not something that should enter into politics, science or any other aspect of modern culture.

OphidiaPhile · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
So what we have on this message board then is a united secularist community: all have participated in this thread and all have cast their vote in favor of our Founding Fathers being somewhat non-Fundie.

Can I get a witness?

OK then. Knowing that, it becomes clear that the secualrists of today are going beyond the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, who clearly wanted religious displays on federal property.
Our Founding Fathers wanted religious displays on Federal property.

Thus it becomes clear to the dull-witted (secularist) that the First Amendment was broad enough (or should be interpreted to be broad) to allow such displays on Federal property. Therefore: Any secularist who disagrees with this, and disagrees with the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, hates the First Amendment.

You secularists can lie. You can distort truths. You can abhor justice. But you cannot and shall not remove displays of a Judeo-Chrisitan nature from Federal property. Doing so must result of a stripped citezenship. But if it were that easy.

You obviously either did not read his post or do not understand it as the founding fathers did not support religion having anything to do with the government and that would include religious displays.

TeddyKGB · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
You secularists can lie. You can distort truths. You can abhor justice. But you cannot and shall not remove displays of a Judeo-Chrisitan nature from Federal property. Doing so must result of a stripped citezenship. But if it were that easy.

Having fun, Trolly Roller?

OphidiaPhile · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
A breathed, "hhhahh!" "[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]udge?"
Dude. You have been doing nothing but lying in this thread! It's either that or brain damage.
One point you say that our FF's were Christians. Then you say they're militant atheists. Then you say that the great Christian scientists were messed up in the head. Now you're saying something about Lincoln being a poor atheist president.

Do you guys now see why we can't stand the non-believers? They SUCK!!! They should all be put out of their misery.

I was just paraphrasing for you since you said that only Christians should be in public office so therefore you must think that President Lincoln sucked because he was not a Christian.

sealacamp · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
Just one day spent traversing the Mall in Washington, D.C., would expose you guys to an undeniable fact of American history: Biblical and religious quotations, including the Ten Commandments, adorn nearly every significant building and monument in our nation's capital. Indeed, the role of faith, family and freedom in American history is inscribed on monuments across the length and breadth of Washington, D.C. For instance, the words of Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, carved in granite, thunder from inside the Memorial that bears his name, praying that the "mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away" but recalling that "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether." At the National Archives are the words "What is past is prologue," inlaid at the Archives' entrance is a bronze medallion of the Ten Commandments.
Washington Monument. is inscribed on the aluminum tip of the capstone, is the Latin phrase Laus Deo -- "Praise be to God." Along the stairway to that height are 190 carved tributes donated by states, cities, individuals, associations, and foreign governments. The blocks resound with quotations from Scripture -- "Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28), "Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7) -- and such invocations as, "May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."
the words of Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, carved in granite, thunder from inside the Memorial that bears his name, praying that the "mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away" but recalling that "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

--Patrick Henry.

Christian and Jewish symbols on Federal property--clearly not intended to be separate from the state.

This should all tell us that the First Amenment isn't meant to be applied to religious symbols on Federal property, and Patrick Henry all but concludes that we may invoke the name of Jesus when we pray before the high school football game.

My, how the irreligious zealots and secularists have damaged the integrity and heritage of this country!

Quite right you are! Too bad the historical revisionists are working overtime to try to make all of this disappear. It should be clear that satan is at work in all of this doing what he has always done, perverting what is good for his own evil purposes, namely his exultation. Some of us know the truth and what history holds, many do not and don't want to know. All we can do is cling to that which is fully true and will set us free, Jesus Christ. For He is the truth of all truths and will set us free whether it be here or in the next life. We can not lie down and be silent no matter how much people jeer at what is true. Gods promises do not fail nor will they any time, ever. Therefore let us stay true to Him and what we know to be right, even in the face of such insane adversity.

Sealacamp

TeddyKGB · Nov 4, 2008

sealacamp said:
Quite right you are! Too bad the historical revisionists are working overtime to try to make all of this disappear. It should be clear that satan is at work in all of this doing what he has always done, perverting what is good for his own evil purposes, namely his exultation. Some of us know the truth and what history holds, many do not and don't want to know. All we can do is cling to that which is fully true and will set us free, Jesus Christ. For He is the truth of all truths and will set us free whether it be here or in the next life. We can not lie down and be silent no matter how much people jeer at what is true. Gods promises do not fail nor will they any time, ever. Therefore let us stay true to Him and what we know to be right, even in the face of such insane adversity.

Will God really be upset, and will Satan really be empowered by the removal of Christian iconography from federal buildings?

Really?

Morcova · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
So what we have on this message board then is a united secularist community: all have participated in this thread and all have cast their vote in favor of our Founding Fathers being somewhat non-Fundie.

Can I get a witness?

OK then. Knowing that, it becomes clear that the secualrists of today are going beyond the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, who clearly wanted religious displays on federal property.
Our Founding Fathers wanted religious displays on Federal property.

Thus it becomes clear to the dull-witted (secularist) that the First Amendment was broad enough (or should be interpreted to be broad) to allow such displays on Federal property. Therefore: Any secularist who disagrees with this, and disagrees with the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, hates the First Amendment.

Go back and actually READ what he said again. If it's unclear to you, find an older child to read it to you.

You secularists can lie. You can distort truths.

You've shown yourself to be adept at both.

But you cannot and shall not remove displays of a Judeo-Chrisitan nature from Federal property. Doing so must result of a stripped citezenship. But if it were that easy.

My condolences, we aren't a theocracy just yet.

Morcova · Nov 4, 2008

sealacamp said:
Quite right you are! Too bad the historical revisionists are working overtime to try to make all of this disappear. It should be clear that satan is at work in all of this doing what he has always done, perverting what is good for his own evil purposes, namely his exultation. Some of us know the truth and what history holds, many do not and don't want to know. All we can do is cling to that which is fully true and will set us free, Jesus Christ. For He is the truth of all truths and will set us free whether it be here or in the next life. We can not lie down and be silent no matter how much people jeer at what is true. Gods promises do not fail nor will they any time, ever. Therefore let us stay true to Him and what we know to be right, even in the face of such insane adversity.

Sealacamp

Apparently god loves idols alot more than he wrote in the bible.

Funny Fundie · Nov 4, 2008

sealacamp said:
Quite right you are! Too bad the historical revisionists are working overtime to try to make all of this disappear. It should be clear that satan is at work in all of this doing what he has always done, perverting what is good for his own evil purposes, namely his exultation. Some of us know the truth and what history holds, many do not and don't want to know. All we can do is cling to that which is fully true and will set us free, Jesus Christ. For He is the truth of all truths and will set us free whether it be here or in the next life. We can not lie down and be silent no matter how much people jeer at what is true. Gods promises do not fail nor will they any time, ever. Therefore let us stay true to Him and what we know to be right, even in the face of such insane adversity.

Sealacamp

You are oh-so correct, sealacamp! Most of Satan's minions are on this website also working overtime (you can see--it's like they're always logged-on). They won't believe it, though; believing instead in atheism (the belief that God and the Devil don't exist) which makes their way of life all that much easier for them.

I say we hold them up in our prayers.

tcampen · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
So what we have on this message board then is a united secularist community: all have participated in this thread and all have cast their vote in favor of our Founding Fathers being somewhat non-Fundie.

Can I get a witness?

What's your point?

OK then. Knowing that, it becomes clear that the secualrists of today are going beyond the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, who clearly wanted religious displays on federal property.
Our Founding Fathers wanted religious displays on Federal property.

Keep in mind that all of the federal monuments and structures you cited as having religious quotes and sentiments were built long after the founders were dead. I'm not sure how you get to your point.

Thus it becomes clear to the dull-witted (secularist) that the First Amendment was broad enough (or should be interpreted to be broad) to allow such displays on Federal property. Therefore: Any secularist who disagrees with this, and disagrees with the wishes of our secularist Founding Fathers, hates the First Amendment.

I wouldn't say hate, I would say misunderstands its intent and purpose.

You secularists can lie. You can distort truths. You can abhor justice. But you cannot and shall not remove displays of a Judeo-Chrisitan nature from Federal property. Doing so must result of a stripped citezenship. But if it were that easy.

The 1st Amendment (and through the 14th Amendment) prohibits government from establishing any religion above another. The writings on national monuments you refer to are quotes from the men those structures honor, along with many others that do not mention a deity. That is not the issue.

But when a government errects a structure of the 10 commandments as authoritative because it being god's law, then that would be against what even the Founders wanted from government. This is distinct from the depiction of Moses and the 10 commandments inside the Supreme Court, where Moses appears alongside Mohommed, Confucious, Socrates and other law-givers throughout history. There the purpose is not religious.

But I am still at a loss as to what your objection is. Are you asking that the government promote your notion of Christianity officially?

Funny Fundie · Nov 4, 2008

I'm asking that the government exorcize the passports and birth citizenships of anyone who wants the First Amendment re-written to include the removal of any and all Judeo-Christian monuments from our country, that's all!

Morcova · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
I'm asking that the government exorcize the passports and birth citizenships of anyone who wants the First Amendment re-written to include the removal of any and all Judeo-Christian monuments from our country, that's all!

HollyRoller, nobody has said that. What happened? They didn't want you at Stormfront?

EnemyPartyII · Nov 4, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
I'm asking that the government exorcize the passports and birth citizenships of anyone who wants the First Amendment re-written to include the removal of any and all Judeo-Christian monuments from our country, that's all!

That'll be a small list.

StarCannon · Nov 5, 2008

I'm asking that the government exorcize the passports and birth citizenships of anyone who wants the First Amendment re-written to include the removal of any and all Judeo-Christian monuments from our country, that's all!

Seperation of church and state is already included within the law. All I propose is to enforce it by removing traces of religious depictions/leanings from currency and buildings under federal jurisdiction.

tcampen · Nov 5, 2008

Funny Fundie said:
I'm asking that the government exorcize the passports and birth citizenships of anyone who wants the First Amendment re-written to include the removal of any and all Judeo-Christian monuments from our country, that's all!

Why do you think those of us who abide by the 1st Amendment as it's written would want "the removal of any and all Judeo-Christian monuments from our country"?

Religious monuments not erected, owned or maintained by the government are not affected by the 1st Amendment. Many that are fall into a category that they have more historical and traditional significance than religious, and are therefore permissible.

But what I don't understand is why you think the Government should officially endorse your particular religion at all. Why does your faith need it? Why don't you see the inherent danger involved in such that the 1st Amendment was enacted to protect us from?

Or are you just trolling?

Why do they hate the First Amendment?

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