Why do so many conservatives dispute global warming and support war?

I'm with Nadiine on this one.

Speaking as an Australian christian I don't know a lot about American politics, but I'm against the Iraqi war and Australia's involvement with it.

As for global warming, have any of you seen Al Gore's documentary called ' An Inconvenient Truth'? If not, I challenge you to do so, even if he was an ex politician who ran for president. This documentary has been too long in the making and has made a huge impact in Australia, to the point that his documentary will be put in the libraries of most high schools in Oz. You will find in this DVD that Gore gives a list of EVERY known scientist 'in this field', for the past thirty or so years, and not one of them denies global warming.

America and Australia are among only a very small hand full of countries who will not join the Kyoto Protocol. I don't understand the reason why, and have yet to look into it.

Tavita said:

Speaking as an Australian christian I don't know a lot about American politics, but I'm against the Iraqi war and Australia's involvement with it.

As for global warming, have any of you seen Al Gore's documentary called ' An Inconvenient Truth'? If not, I challenge you to do so, even if he was an ex politician who ran for president. This documentary has been too long in the making and has made a huge impact in Australia, to the point that his documentary will be put in the libraries of most high schools in Oz. You will find in this DVD that Gore gives a list of EVERY known scientist 'in this field', for the past thirty or so years, and not one of them denies global warming.

America and Australia are among only a very small hand full of countries who will not join the Kyoto Protocol. I don't understand the reason why, and have yet to look into it.

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Hi Tavita,

That Kyoto plan is a mess. It discludes China entirely (who is using up tons of energy to grow as quickly as it is) - along with no guidelines in place to check who is abiding by the proposals.
In other words, it tells CERTAIN countries to do a list of things, yet has no governing authorities to make sure anyone's doing any of it, or enforcing the rules on those who don't.
As usual, people make horrible and/or unfair solutions. It will take extreme amounts of money to transfer the energy & change the systems over, and if some countries abide by the rules while others don't, it weakens nations financial status.
ie. China grows & multiplies without having to do anything, while America spends many billions & follows thru w/

It can cause stability problems. I'm all for fixing problems, BUT GIVE ME GOOD SOLUTIONS that are fair.
This is usually the problem with anything world powers do. The UN is a useless disgrace.

intricatic said:

I'm with Nadiine on this one.

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A good online friend of mine is in college & did some global warming studies and she's convinced this is all a big lie. She's also very adamant about it. She's got all kinds of info on this.

I don't buy into all the propaganda; our media & many other people have agendas that I do not trust.

I wonder what would have happened if we spent billions to fight global cooling in the 70's.

Nadiine said:

A good online friend of mine is in college & did some global warming studies and she's convinced this is all a big lie. She's also very adamant about it. She's got all kinds of info on this.

I don't buy into all the propaganda; our media & many other people have agendas that I do not trust.

I wonder what would have happened if we spent billions to fight global cooling in the 70's.

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The way I see it, if global warming is a reality, I oppose political attempts to fix it because government is incapable of addressing a problem of that magnitude without infringing on the rights of individuals, and expounding governmental waste.

intricatic said:

The way I see it, if global warming is a reality, I oppose political attempts to fix it because government is incapable of addressing a problem of that magnitude without infringing on the rights of individuals, and expounding governmental waste.

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Exactly. I can't agree more!
Right now, I have a new thread out on school lunch bans - the school's solution for 1 child out of an entire school who has a peanut allergy, is to ban all peanut products from all children.

Someone may be all for this, but it's just another example of drastic extremes they always run to in hopes to solve a problem.

Look at the horrific track record of overspending to fix something serious by the govt. They tack on so much beaurocracy, red tape and waste to everything they do.
It's all about power & greed.

I'm more worried about them fixing it than if it were a real problem.

BigMike835 said:

Anyway, I've been noticing how many conservative christians dispute global warming and also seem to support any and all actions made by the military seemingly without question.

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Two big, but separate issues. Of course, I think much of the problem with American politics lies in the fact that separate issues are tied together with party platforms, so taking a stand on one thing somehow translates to affirming something else (e.g. "do you want to vote for war or abortion?".

BigMike835 said:

And what makes you think that global warming has anything to do with Jesus's's's return?? People naively link various bad things going on in the world to the end times almost like a justification to let it happen.

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Right. We shall not know the day or the hour of the Lord's return. (I like all those s's's's after "Jesus," btw) Some Christians think that terrorism is a sign of the end times, but I don't see them sending donations to the Christians United for Al Queda fund (CUAC).

tiredwalker said:

I month or two ago (when it was a lovely 60 degrees here in NH) I posted a thread asking people to state one or two little things they would do to help the earth. I recieved a few pats on the head before my thread dwindled to nothing.

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Would you please link me to that thread? I'd like to join in.

Nadiine said:

Exactly. I can't agree more!
Right now, I have a new thread out on school lunch bans - the school's solution for 1 child out of an entire school who has a peanut allergy, is to ban all peanut products from all children.

Someone may be all for this, but it's just another example of drastic extremes they always run to in hopes to solve a problem.

Look at the horrific track record of overspending to fix something serious by the govt. They tack on so much beaurocracy, red tape and waste to everything they do.
It's all about power & greed.

I'm more worried about them fixing it than if it were a real problem.

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In the case of schooling, I'm willing to let the world be the world. I was home-schooled and I fully intend on my children being likewise. Basically for that same reason - I don't think the government is capable of dealing with complex problems without suffering a complete neural collapse of common sense.

I absolutely agree on getting the problem fixed, if it is a problem, though. I just think the information on hand is too ambiguous to present an effective goal. If government can come up with a realistic and logical plan that doesn't imply putting a heavy load on our economy, I'd be all for it.

Nadiine said:

I'm not a firm believer in global warming and there are PLENTY of scientists & other experts that show valid evidences against it.
It's not like NO contradictory documentation exists! You CHOOSE to beleive your "experts", we tend to believe the others.
Why are WE so wrong?

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When independently-funded scientists come to one conclusion, and privately-funded scientists come to another, I do tend to wonder about the source of the funding. The one who pays the bills often determines how the numbers look at the end of the day.

Nadiine said:

Lastly, as a Christian, GOD SAID HE WILL KEEP US... is God going to let the entire earth burn up before His judgment?
Do Christians trust in God or that we're all going to get burned up?

Christians don't find global warming in the bible - the ONLY place global warming might fit in prophecy is DURING THE JUDGMENTS God sends against the rebellious who reject Him.

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Right, God will keep us -- but we still look both ways before crossing the street. We still take medicine when we're sick. We still make sure no one puts a bomb in the White House.

Just because global warming isn't mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't a real concern. We're called to be good stewards of Creation, and I think that's enough of a biblical mandate to be conserned about the issue.

Nadiine said:

They always go to wacked out extremes which makes it completely unappealing to us 'normal' people lol.

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Just food for thought, here: What if the "wacked-out extremes" are necessary in order to achieve good? What if a lukewarm response is inadequate?

Nadiine said:

Worse, they RARELY solve the problem correctly; they go to wasteful spending & extremes w/ all kinds of beaurocracies & new positions to fix it...
I'm MORE skeptical of their solution than believing global warming itself!

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Okay, if you don't like the solutions that have been suggested, you have a voice and a vote. You can ask your elected representatives to work for alternate solutions, not just vote against the ones you deem faulty.

Nadiine said:

We also don't have centuries worth of weather temperature documentation.
...
How many total decades/centuries have we kept track of weather temps around the world? Maybe the weather cycles are the same as they were 3500 yrs. ago & history is repeating itself; who would know?

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I think you'd be surprised at some of the things that can be determined. While there is an absence of data, what we have is sufficient to determine that there is a change occurring currently, and that our actions at least contribute to that change.

Nadiine said:

& the ONLY way to solve the problem is enforce all major nations to comply to the SAME standards (just for starters).
It isn't & shouldn't be ALL America's blame, work and cost to help fix it if it's true.

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No, it shouldn't be all on us. But if everyone sits around saying "it's not fair for me to do all the work" then no one is going to get started. We pride ourselve, supposedly, on taking initiative and being a world leader. This is an opportunity to demonstrate that in a way that won't have the majority of nations hating us.

Nadiine said:

That Kyoto plan is a mess....
As usual, people make horrible and/or unfair solutions. It will take extreme amounts of money to transfer the energy & change the systems over, and if some countries abide by the rules while others don't, it weakens nations financial status.
ie. China grows & multiplies without having to do anything, while America spends many billions & follows thru w/

It can cause stability problems. I'm all for fixing problems, BUT GIVE ME GOOD SOLUTIONS that are fair.
This is usually the problem with anything world powers do. The UN is a useless disgrace.

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Ok, so if the solution isn't good, we don't stop looking for answers. We keep working at it. And, like I said above -- at the end of the day, someone may have to admit that the problem is more important than protecting pride, and take the first steps of leadership as an example.

Nadiine said:

I'm more worried about them fixing it than if it were a real problem.

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I think this is a lot of the problem with environmental issues. It's about "them" and what "they" are doing to fix it. We'd make a lot more progress if we started talking about "we" and "us" instead.

No reputable scientist denies that the climate is changing. Some debate the cause of this change, but very few deny that human choices play a role. If a choice that I make affects the quality of God's Creation, then I'm responsible for making that choice wisely. Even if there are other factors at work, I am called to do what I can to be a good steward of the resources with which I've been blessed.

This shouldn't be a matter of politics; it's a matter of taking responsibility for what our Father has given us. We can argue about whether this or that is an appropriate solution, but we're not going to get anywhere until there is widespread agreement that we need to seek some solution, whether it be in the political, social, religious, economic, or individual spheres.

Macrina said:

This shouldn't be a matter of politics; it's a matter of taking responsibility for what our Father has given us. We can argue about whether this or that is an appropriate solution, but we're not going to get anywhere until there is widespread agreement that we need to seek some solution, whether it be in the political, social, religious, economic, or individual spheres.

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It shouldn't be a matter of politics, but unfortunately it is. That's not something I'm happy about.

intricatic said:

It shouldn't be a matter of politics, but unfortunately it is. That's not something I'm happy about.

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Yeah, it's political, but it's all those other things, too. We can work for change in more than one way -- especially if change isn't working in the way we've been trying. (Trust me, I'm with you on a lot of the political stuff -- I think the American political systemm is uniquely gifted at ensuring that nothing of substance gets accomplished.)

Macrina said:

Yeah, it's political, but it's all those other things, too. We can work for change in more than one way -- especially if change isn't working in the way we've been trying. (Trust me, I'm with you on a lot of the political stuff -- I think the American political systemm is uniquely gifted at ensuring that nothing of substance gets accomplished.)

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I agree completely. I'd like there to be a rural environment left for people to enjoy 10 years down the road, but I think most of America is stuck on this idea of "impractical sense" - we (that is, the government) massively promote urban expansion to the point where entire ecologies are teetering on the verge of collapse (Everglades, for instance), then propose a hugely impractical idea like Kyoto to help turn the climate around. I think the core of the problem is our obsession over urban culture and lack of responsibility for the problems we've created. We want to treat the effect and not the cause.

Intricatic, I agree that "responsibility" is a key word here. We all have to start taking ownership of the problem in order to see results. That's the way to the greatest positive change, IMHO.

It all starts with our pride in our own ingenuity.

intricatic said:

It all starts with our pride in our own ingenuity.

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If only we could turn that ingenuity toward conservation...

Macrina said:

If only we could turn that ingenuity toward conservation...

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So long as we're not proud of it, that'd be awesome.

intricatic said:

So long as we're not proud of it, that'd be awesome.

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intricatic said:

I agree completely. I'd like there to be a rural environment left for people to enjoy 10 years down the road, but I think most of America is stuck on this idea of "impractical sense" - we (that is, the government) massively promote urban expansion to the point where entire ecologies are teetering on the verge of collapse (Everglades, for instance), then propose a hugely impractical idea like Kyoto to help turn the climate around. I think the core of the problem is our obsession over urban culture and lack of responsibility for the problems we've created. We want to treat the effect and not the cause.

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I actually think it's more sinister than that,.... I think greed & power at the very core of why nothing is PROPERLY done by our Govt.
And I'm not attacking Bush individually, I'm including the house & senate w/ dueling parties that don't want to give the party in power the "credit" for fixing anything serious.
Instead of passing good legislation, they shut it down becuz the 'other party they hate' would get the recognition & praise for it... & we can't have that happen!
This is nothing more than 'HATING YOUR OPPONENT MORE THAN YOU LOVE YOUR OWN COUNTRY OR PEOPLE'.

This has been an ongoing problem for many, many decades & it's the ENTIRE govt. Don't blame Bush or any Pres. directly - it can't be laid in one man's lap; it's the entire system that's been corrupted by money & power.

This is why I have no faith in Govt. to fix anything. I'm of the opinion that we've gotten beyond human solutions - God Himself is going to have to step in & do something drastic to stop mankind from killing himself.
But all we see right now is PROPHECY BEING FULFILLED - God told us this would happen. Ethnic wars are unprecedented and the nations are in serious perplexity/ distress... & it all aims at Israel.
Even the secular world notices the differences going on.

I just don't think man can fix it anymore... I think we're heading to the end time battle God prophecied & there's no stopping it no matter how we want to fix things; wars or global warming (if it even exists)...
I say, PRAY HARD