Why do all believers connected with "tongues".....

stormdancer0 said:

I believed OSAS my whole life, until I started studying, when I went to seminary (only in the past 12 years or so).


Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

So even when we are grafted into the family of God, we can still be cut off and cast away.

Luke 9:62
Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”

So if we begin to follow Christ, then turn back to our old life, we will not be fit for His kingdom. We lose what we had.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
AND
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
So if we have tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit (therefore a believer), and fall away, it is impossible to restore them again to repentance.
Even Paul was concerned about losing his salvation:
1 Corinthians 9:27
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified
This subject is similar to the pre-trib vs. mid-trib vs. post tribulation argument. I see scriptural evidence on both sides. I do not believe you can "accidentally" or thoughtlessly lose your salvation.
However, I do believe that you can deliberately and consciously tell God, "I'm not following you any more." Of course, He will try to help you see that He is the answer to all problems. But there comes a time that a heart is so hardened, that God says, "Okay. You want to walk away from Me? So be it."

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Well, we have one thing in common. We are both Seminary Trained.

So, do you understand what "fallen from Grace" means. ?
Do you understand that there is "another gospel" that someone who is fallen from Grace, teaches, and this is how you identify them?
And what is the false Gospel stormdancer0? Its the gospel you just taught by abusing scriptures that rips Jesus off the Nails..... and substitutes,= "im saving myself' and here are my scriptures that I SAY prove it.

You just preached the gospel of "self saving" using scriptures.
Understand, you are using scriptures to deny the FINISHED Work of Jesus, (The Blood Atonement) as your "gospel" of self saving.
Notice that all of your verses that you are using are related to a person doing something or not doing something that , if they don't do this, according to YOUR Gospel of WORKS, they remain SAVED.
So, you are teaching faith in "doing or not doing", as what Keeps a person Saved.
This is "another gospel" that rejects the Cross, rejects the Grace of God.., that is a false gospel, and its a curse, according to Paul ... Galatians 1:8
He is talking to you in that verse.

What you don't see, is that when you reject Christ and substitute "here is my LIST of things i do or must not do, to KEEP MYSELF OUT OF HELL", as your gospel..... you are rejecting the Grace of God that is actually a Free Gift of Salvation that has provided the BLOOD OF JESUS as the ONLY reason you are saved, and the only reason you STAY saved.
"What SAVED YOU, Keeps you SAVED". = THe BLOOD OF JESUS.

But NOT ACCORDING TO YOUR "gospel"....... YOUR Gospel of "self saving " of "works", denies the Blood Atonement as the ONLY MEANS of Salvation..

When Jesus says.. "All that come to me will NEVER Perish".....Your gospel denies this.
When Jesus says...."noone shall take you out of my Hand".....Including YOURSELF......... your gospel denies this.

Your false gospel DENIES that ETERNAL LIFE is ETERNAL.

Your false gospel claims that Jesus who is inside a Child of God.......that the Holy Spirit who is inside a child of God.....and God who is in this "Temple".......all go to HELL, if they don't maintain your LIST of works.

See, you are one more false teacher who does not understand that there is no verse that says that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can LEAVE the body and Spirit of a Child of God. So, when YOU CAST a Son of God into hell with your gospel of works, with your list of "do's and don't do'", you are also casting God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit into hell, also, with your false gospel.
This is why Paul says the gospel you are teaching is cursed = Galatians 1:8
This is why Paul says in Titus 3:10 that these techers are to be "rejected", and not given another chance to corrupt the Faith of real Believers.

You don't even realize what you are LITERALLY DOING....in PUBLIC.

You are denying the Blood Atonement by replacing it, through twisting scriptures to try to prove that ITS NOT THE Blood of Jesus that keeps you out of hell.....but rather is YOUR self effort... = your doing this or not doing that keeps YOU out of Hell. That is your "gospel'.
Understand, that because you have only faith in SELF to keep you out of hell, as you have proven ....then Faith is Christ is gone.
That's what you've become. And according to you, your Seminary did this to you. They striped away your Faith in Christ and now you have faith in YOU to keep yourself out of Hell, while you try to send born again Christians into the Lake of Fire, WITH CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT SEALED IN THEM. !
You have now shown us all your works that you are doing/believing to try to keep yourself saved, as = "see MY List,???? = if i do this, and don't do that, i am keeping myself SAVED", "im keeping MYSELF Out of Hell". = YOU are on the Cross, and your seminary nailed you up there... and here you are trying to get the rest of us up on the Cross of SELF SAVING.

So, you Have REJECTED God's Grace, in public, denied the Blood of Jesus is ETERNAL Redemption, and have literally come against Jesus, who Himself IS Eternal LIFE..
You have now taught, on a public forum, that to be "in Christ" is not based on the Blood of Jesus, but is based on US keeping ourselves saved by works.
Your gospel is now a false gospel of "self saving"......and it denies the Blood Atonement.
And you did it in Public.

You need to stop believing this, and you really must stop teaching this false gospel.

fwGod said:

The idea that only believers who speak in tongues believe that you can lose your salvation is completely wrong.

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That would be your idea.
Ive never stated that "its only the people who claim a spiritual gift teach that you can lose your salvation".
So, read more carefully, and be more honest.

I said that the Pentecostal related, the Charismatic related, teach that you can lose your salvation.
This does not mean that there can't be an isolated FEW, who don't teach this... but as a WHOLE, its a FACT that they do.
It is certainly a fact that within these denominations, their "Charter" their Statement of FAITH, does state that you can lose your salvation.

Understand reader, that if you teach that you can lose your salvation, then this means you are teaching that the person, the person, the person, the person, the person, the person, and NOT THE BLOOD ATONEMENT= is the reason for Eternal Life.

fwGod said:

I can only go by the words that you post.. other than that, I can't read your mind to know what you meant by what you said. Perhaps you don't realize that you made a sweeping generalization. That is your manner of speaking, not a matter of my 'lack of honesty'.

If you are saying that you didn't say 'only the charismatics teach it..', then I suggest that you should not have said 'why do all believers connected with tongues say..'

But I realize now that they were your intended target for your bait.
So now you change your statement. But, you are still in error. For it would be more accurate to say that more than you think.. if not every denominational preacher and teacher teaches that a Christian can lose their salvation.

My saying that in no way makes me dishonest.

It is a fact that ALL denominations teach / have taught it at one time or another.

That is not the way to decide that they are the only ones who do teach it. It's likely that all who've been active in this thread are not pentecostal or charismatic.. and all are familiar with the doctrine.
It's good then that it's acknowledged that all denominations teach it, other wise you have no satisfaction in telling every denomination in what degree that they are wrong in teaching it.

It is not God's decision that is the reason for a person being saved. But it is up to the person, the person, the person, the person, the person, the person.. and not God to choose who shall be saved and who will not.

It is likewise up to the person described in Heb.6:4-6 who decides to stay saved because of honoring the blood atonement or not stay saved because of rejecting the blood atonement. After all., it's there for every living person and many unbelievers do not and will not ever accept it and therefore it doesn't keep them from going to hell.

You mention the blood atonement as the fail-safe.. but, where is it mentioned in those verses that the blood atonement keeps them from losing their salvation?

When such a person denounces their mature experience with God they are rejecting all of it.. including the blood atonement.. therefore, how can they be kept in a saved position by the very thing that they reject?

Heb.6:6 if they fall away, (in context- it is impossible) to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

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Your verses in Hebrews, are not talking to Born again believers.
Notice the context of the verse. "if they reject the Son of God"

So, have you ever witnessed to anyone? If you have, then you tell them about the "Son of God", the Cross and they have the option to willfully believe or willfully reject Christ. This is what is happening to those unsaved HEBREWS, in those verses you posted. Now, turn to Acts 28..the last 10 verses, and you will find this same happening......And this will show you that its Unsaved Jews, and Paul is the preacher.

You have not fully understood the Blood Atonement. You dont yet understand that the Blood Atonement is a COMPLETED Salvation.....Its not a work in progress.

See, your salvation understanding is....>"Jesus starts my salvation, and then i must make sure that i dont end up in hell as MY part of the CROSS I'm on.".

And that idea, that type theology, looks like this...... The CROSS + my WORKS, = How im trying to save myself.
And that is a false gospel.. It is exactly what Paul says is "another Gospel"... Its explained as...>"are you so foolish, having begun in the Spirit that you now made perfect by the Flesh

The ""FLESH"" is self EFFORT...... So, that is what you are teaching........."God saved me.....and now i keep myself saved by doing and doing and confessing and repenting".

So, what has happened, is that your SAVIOR is become YOU...... You are trying to keep yourself saved, by not doing what you say will cause you to be lost..

Your savior , = is all that stuff that you believe you must do or NOT DO... to keep yourself from losing your Salvation.......and all that stuff has replaced Christ, as your personal savior.

Beanieboy said:

Can you explain how one loses salvation?

If a person decided to no longer be Christian, that would make sense, and the reason why they left may factor into their judgement.

But beyond saying, "I reject Christianity,"
is it believed that salvation is lost on, say, a technicality?

I have heard people argue "you can lose salvation if you are an unrepentant sinner." If we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us.
"I don't purposely sin" the argue.
Really? You lie on accident? You lie, but weren't aware it was a sin? My point is, while we strive not to sin, we still fall short, so then all of us are lost.

I could argue that the man married to his second wife, divorcing his first after they realized how unhappy they were, of living an adulterous lifestyle, willfully sinning, unrepentant and proudly displaying his adulterous.

I just wouldn't, because if he and his second wife are happy, and he and his 1st wife were not, I will probably mind my own business, and tend to my own life.

The real issue I have with saying that one can lose their salvation, is that it leaves new believers into a sense of self-doubt: I hope I go to heaven.
I think I am saved.

So, Jesus died to take away the sin of the world, that whoever believes in him will have eternal life. Unless, of course, you lose it, and then you will burn in hell. And because how if is lost isn't stated, there is doubt in the resurrection.

When I say OSAS, your salvation isn't voided out because you made a bad decision, and committed some sin.

We are forgiven as many times and as easily as we forgive others.

But so many people will point to some random verse, say, You spoke in church. Paul says not to. You are going to hell. Plus, you have braids in your hair!!!"

Christ told us he will say, I was hungry and you fed me, etc. If we loved our neighbor, we have followed Jesus.

With the Good Samaritan, the levite and priest were probably following commandments for cleanliness before entering the temple. Why did Christ not applaud their obedience?
Because caring for the beaten man should have taken priority.

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We are made the "righteousness of Christ"......With Salvation comes "The gift of Righteousness".

Is there any SIN in Righteousness? Is there any SIN .. "IN Christ"?

Our sin ....= "Jesus became our sin"...on the Cross, and died., and rose again.

Here is a revelation for some of you... Your sin, is Gone. If you read Romans 4:8, you will discover a blessing... "God does not CHARGE YOU with your sin"......and why? Because Jesus has already been Judged for all your sin on the Cross.

So, what are you actually doing, when all your Christianity has become is...."sinning, confessing, falling, repenting, falling confessing"......... is NOTHING.
The only thing you accomplish by confessing and repenting of what Jesus has already died for...is... you solve your guilt trip. That's all you're doing. You feel guilty, so you may cry, and you might even feel bad for a couple of days......and you tell God you are "so sorry"...... then you do it again in a week.
And then, "guilt, confession, sinnign".......... you're doing nothing, but trying to solve your own GUILTY CONSCIENCE. And when you finally feel better, you think....."Ok, im ok with God again.
And that is a CHRISTIAN FAILURE because its a false idea of the concept of Christianity and Salvation.