Why did God create us with sin in the world?

Thibeault said:

This is a perpetual question for theologians and laity alike. When we look at the world and recognize that a holy and infinitely perfect God has created us, we can appreciate His majesty and wonder. But, it is impossible for us to ignore the fact that this world is far from perfect. There is sin in it. Why, then, if God is infinitely perfect and powerful, did He create a world and allow the fall to occur to contaminate it?
The Bible doesn't give us specific answer to this question, but I would like to know what you guys think!!!

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xtxArchxAngelxtx said:

umm we chose to sin, God did not create sin. God did, however, allow for sin to happen as act of free will and free choice.

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xtxArchxAngelxtx said:

umm we chose to sin, God did not create sin. God did, however, allow for sin to happen as act of free will and free choice. Without it, love would be pure manipulation.

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GreenDragon said:

Cause it's more fun to watch a world where people think for themselves and make mistakes than one of mindless zombies.

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Cre8 said:

Thibeault,

The Bible is very clear that:

1. God is holy, holy, holy.
2. God is love.
3. God is the creator and ruler of the universe.
4. God created those who do evil (Satan, demons, people).
5. All people must never break God’s laws.
6. If you break even the smallest of God’s laws you are sent to hell.
7. All people (including infants) are sinners by nature.
8. God allowed an eternal calamity that will only be survived by a limited number of people.
9. Jesus Christ is the only savior of man
10. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ can be saved.


When I hear people make comments to perfect strangers like "Jesus loves you" I immediately wonder what their knowledge of Jesus really is. Jesus, we are told, will save a limited number of people. That explains why many people die and never believe in (or even hear about) him. If Jesus indeed does love a specific person then that person will be saved. This is also basic biblical study. Listen to what Jesus says in the book of John chapter 14 verse 6: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” And in John 6 verse 44: No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day”

These verses are extremely clear. The only way to come to the father is through Jesus. And the only way to get to Jesus is to be drawn by the father. This is what the Bible says regarding God’s sovereignty in salvation. So when people say things like “Jesus loves you” they may very well be wrong, according to the Bible.

God, according to the Holy Bible, “takes no pleasure in the punishment of the wicked” but still he punishes the wicked. The same wickedness He created (or allowed, if you will). So, it can be said, then, that the God of Holy Scripture willfully tortures people forever. He sets people up to pay a price they can never afford and predestines (hardens) them to deny the only person who can pay it for them (Jesus). In the Biblical description, God does the most horrific, dreadful and hopeless acts of holy vengeance that one can ever imagine.

Romans Chapter 9:
11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad–in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls–she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? 22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory– 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” 26and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”

This text is very clear. Paul clarifies God's position on sovereignty. Read it again. Romans Chapter 9 articulates in very clear words that it is God who decides life and death, blessing and curse. God hated Esau: Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad–in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls–she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Again, the text reads that God hated Esau. He loved Jacob. This hatred had nothing to do with Esau’s actions. God’s mind was made up before the twins were born. Before “the foundations of the world” God has made his mind up, according to the Bible. He loves some and hates others.

I do not know which view is more crushing: The Calvinist view of selective salvation, the belief that God has chosen certain people to go to Heaven and Hell. This choice, which was made long before the universe was even created, has nothing to do with the person’s longing for God or the attitude of his heart. It has nothing to do with the person’s humility, repentance, or his search for righteousness. It has nothing to do with God’s foreknowledge of who will become Christians in the future.

Or
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The Arminian view: they believe man controls most aspects of his own life. Man’s freewill to choose his own destiny is central to this belief system. Arminians believe God would never force certain people to go to Heaven and Hell. Arminians believe people can choose (out of their own freewill) to accept or reject God’s forgiveness. They also believe a person who is already saved can choose to reject God. As a result, a person can lose his salvation. While some Arminians believe a person’s salvation can only be lost because of major unrepentant sins, others believe a person’s salvation can be lost several times a day.

The Calvinist view sees a God who predetermines certain souls to hell while the Arminian view sees a God who knows certain people will choose hell and then does nothing to stop them.

The 1st view gives certain people a will that will never choose God.
The 2nd view gives certain people a will that will never choose God.

In both theological views, God has the power to save the people but he does not. In the end, these people still end up in hell forever where there is eternal torture with no hope. Now you tell me, what difference does it ultimately make to the damned person? Either way, they were damned from the beginning. The God of the Bible hated them from before birth.

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Angel4Truth said:

Do you think God really made us just to watch for fun?

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GreenDragon said:

It's gotta be a large part of it, otherwise God wouldn't make us capable of so many dang funny things. What else would we be here for? For us to have fun, for him to have fun... not coming up with much more.

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Angel4Truth said:

Well how about to love?

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