Why Did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve?

Rafael · Mar 12, 2007

thedream233 said:
It seems to me that It all went wrong when Satan came along in the form of a serpent. When God threw Satan out of Heaven, why couldn't he put him somewhere else in the universe far away from earth?

This might help. I have thought and stuggled to understand this question myself, and over the years I have come to learn that God made evil for a good reason. That sounds like a contradiction of terms, but nothing is impossible for God. He can make evil turn out for good because of His powers, and uses the devil and evil as the contrast to His light and revelation. I've used this simple explanation many times; that white on white does not give us a portrait of God that we can see by any sense, but black, the opposite of the light which would represent evil, when used, gives definition to the portrait along with all the colors and various shades that are in the light. A full choice is given because we have evil as a tool that helps us define that which is good, and we have God's assurance that "ALL things" finally work together for good, to those that love God and are the called according to His purpose." (Rom.8:28)

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Romons 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Ben12 · Mar 12, 2007

Rafael said:
This might help. I have thought and stuggled to understand this question myself, and over the years I have come to learn that God made evil for a good reason. That sounds like a contradiction of terms, but nothing is impossible for God. He can make evil turn out for good because of His powers, and uses the devil and evil as the contrast to His light and revelation. I've used this simple explanation many times; that white on white does not give us a portrait of God that we can see by any sense, but black, the opposite of the light which would represent evil, when used, gives definition to the portrait along with all the colors and various shades that are in the light. A full choice is given because we have evil as a tool that helps us define that which is good, and we have God's assurance that "ALL things" finally work together for good, to those that love God and are the called according to His purpose." (Rom.8:28)

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Romons 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Amen You got it. God is not spelled good.

Calminian · Mar 12, 2007

The only thing I would disagree with on the previous posts is the the choice of the word "made" instead of "granted" or "allowed." I'm perfectly fine in saying God allowed evil for a good reason. But to say He caused it is problematic. I think even most calvinists would be reluctant to attribute the authorship of sin to God. The Bible even refutes the idea of God causing temptation.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

revmalone · Mar 12, 2007

Ben12 said:
I love John 3:16 and yes we need a savior; but according to scripture salvation come from grace not freewill. God draws/drags us by his grace then we come. Freewill comes from religion and religious bias not scripture.

Lucifer; is he really the devil?

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. In the natural it is speaking of a King and in the spiritual it is speaking of Adam. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

When Adam was placed in Eden he was perfect. When Adam fell he fell from a lofty realm. He was cast out of that realm. Adam because of the fall caused Kingdoms to shake and made the world as a wilderness. The fall brought us down into this realm of vanity. Adam was the1st Adam and Jesus is the last Adam.

Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

In the beginning Man was full of light and Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.

I have been a born again christian for well over 45 years; but I was saved by grace.

Hey
I know we are saved by grace, This was a reply to another guy, ha ha. Sorry about that if I post it to the wrong person.

You right it is grace alone, but unless a person come to see there lost they will just end up like the watered down version of christians today.

We are instructed to follow, but many these days are just saying a quick little prayer and that is it, no change at all in there lifes.

If it wasn't a new birth then Jesus would have told a fib by saying uless your born again, or from above you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

I know 45yrs is along time to follow Jesus, You have seen the changes in your 45yrs of walk. It pains me to think millions think because of saying a little prayer there saved, when there really not according to Jesus own word. I'm glad you contacted me my brother, see you in heaven soon.

Bless you in Jesus name.
Rev Malone

revmalone · Mar 12, 2007

Ben12 said:
Romans 5 speaks of spiritual death.

Adam died when he partook of the fruit in the garden; he did not die physically until he was 930 years old. (Gen. 5.5) He died spiritually. A dead man cannot hear, see, touch, feel, etc. That is especially true of a spiritual dead man. The Spirit of Truth is the only power that awake a spiritual man out of the death state; he is so dead spiritually all the freewill doctrine in this carnal or religious world will never wake him from spiritual death.

God had a savior/a plan before he had a sinner. Jesus was chosen from the beginning of the earth as that lamb slain from that foundation of the earth.

Jesus would not; and could not go against the will of the Father. He was for ordained; and was the son of God. It was the will of the Father that His first son would fail; it was the will of the Father that His second son would be triumphant. He knew the sacrifice and He accomplished it.

Rom 11:32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (The word might was added by the translator; God does not “might” anything)

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7: 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 8:6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Greetings
It is hard to give the whole Bible in a nutshell, and under 15,000 words at that. I already understand these thank for your insights , I'll think about what you said

Rev Malone

Ben12 · Mar 12, 2007

Calminian said:
The only thing I would disagree with on the previous posts is the the choice of the word "made" instead of "granted" or "allowed." I'm perfectly fine in saying God allowed evil for a good reason. But to say He caused it is problematic. I think even most calvinists would be reluctant to attribute the authorship of sin to God. The Bible even refutes the idea of God causing temptation.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (KJV)

1 Sam 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
(KJV)

1 Sam 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the (KJV)

Calminian · Mar 12, 2007

Ben12 said:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the
LORD do all these things.

Yes but these are natural evils which most translations correctly translate "calamities."

Is. 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’ (NKJV)

This is not the same as unjust evils committed by agents such as Adam and Lucifer. Remember words cannot be defined apart from their context. Calamities are just, as God has the right to judge the earth and takes lives when He sees fit. This is simply an equivocation of a term that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Ben12 said:
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (KJV)

Again we have God ordaining or granting liberty to agents. All sides agree God does this. As I said before, I am very comfortable with saying God permits and even ordains all evil choices by agents. What I don't see is support for God actively causing agents to choose evil.

Ben12 said:
1 Sam 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
(KJV)

1 Sam 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the (KJV)

Still doesn't make your point that God not only gives liberty to free agents (the spirit) but also causes them to do evil. The above actually supports the arminian side that God is not the author of evil, but rather the author of freedom which some use for evil.

Ben12 · Mar 12, 2007

Calminian said:
Yes but these are natural evils which most translations correctly translate "calamities."

Is. 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’ (NKJV)

This is not the same as unjust evils committed by agents such as Adam and Lucifer. Remember words cannot be defined apart from their context. Calamities are just, as God has the right to judge the earth and takes lives when He sees fit. This is simply an equivocation of a term that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Again we have God ordaining or granting liberty to agents. All sides agree God does this. As I said before, I am very comfortable with saying God permits and even ordains all evil choices by agents. What I don't see is support for God actively causing agents to choose evil.

Still doesn't make your point that God not only gives liberty to free agents (the spirit) but also causes them to do evil. The above actually supports the arminian side that God is not the author of evil, but rather the author of freedom which some use for evil.

All I know is God is in total control of all things. I really do not care about arminian view or what ever tradition. Calamities or evil same thing. I do not believe that Lucifer is the devil.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan)

Ben12 · Mar 12, 2007

revmalone said:
Hey
I know we are saved by grace, This was a reply to another guy, ha ha. Sorry about that if I post it to the wrong person.

You right it is grace alone, but unless a person come to see there lost they will just end up like the watered down version of christians today.

We are instructed to follow, but many these days are just saying a quick little prayer and that is it, no change at all in there lifes.

If it wasn't a new birth then Jesus would have told a fib by saying uless your born again, or from above you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

I know 45yrs is along time to follow Jesus, You have seen the changes in your 45yrs of walk. It pains me to think millions think because of saying a little prayer there saved, when there really not according to Jesus own word. I'm glad you contacted me my brother, see you in heaven soon.

Bless you in Jesus name.
Rev Malone

rev malone vbmenu_register("postmenu_32681264", true);

Amen

I just read this and thought you would appriciate the thought

I wish with all my heart that Christians would stop believing that they are born again the moment they believe. This doctrine, taught almost universally among evangelical people, has been an enormous hindrance in the progress of Christians, for they, thinking they have reached sonship, fail to press toward the mark of full sonship in Him. If men could only see that "that which is born of God cannot sin, for His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God," (1 Jno. 3:9) then they would not be in such a hurry to declare that they are born again and thus full sons of God. There is a universe of difference between being justified by faith and being born again. Both the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailor believed on Christ and were justified from their sins, but I think we would be very wrong to imagine that they had done any more than "receive Him" and, because they had received Him, power was given to them to become sons of God.

Calminian · Mar 12, 2007

Ben12 said:
All I know is God is in total control of all things.

Amen.

Ben12 said:
Calamities or evil same thing.

That's the thing about freewill. We can chose to believe to ignore context and believe what we want.

Ben12 said:
I do not believe that Lucifer is the devil.

Uh oh. Exactly what religion are you?

Calminian · Mar 12, 2007

Ben12 said:
I wish with all my heart that Christians would stop believing that they are born again the moment they believe. This doctrine, taught almost universally among evangelical people, has been an enormous hindrance in the progress of Christians, for they, thinking they have reached sonship, fail to press toward the mark of full sonship in Him. If men could only see that "that which is born of God cannot sin, for His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God," (1 Jno. 3:9) then they would not be in such a hurry to declare that they are born again and thus full sons of God. There is a universe of difference between being justified by faith and being born again. Both the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailor believed on Christ and were justified from their sins, but I think we would be very wrong to imagine that they had done any more than "receive Him" and, because they had received Him, power was given to them to become sons of God.

All I can say is that if you were familiar with the greek language you wouldn't be so confused by 1 John and fooled into throwing out the doctrine of the 2nd birth. I'd really like to know where you received these ideas from. The verb to sin in 1John 3:9 is a present active infinitive. This caries the idea of a continual action, not a simple action. It's a little difficult to pick up these nuances in english as we don't have a verb tense that conveys this as clearly. Thus the born again christian does not sin continually as a pattern of behavior. That's all the passage is saying.

But one doesn't even have to be familiar with greek to see the problem with your interpretation. The following verses clearly indicate that christians are born again.

1John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
1John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
1John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.

This is the same John that made it clear all christians are sinners.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Soldier_For_Christ · Mar 12, 2007

thedream233 said:
It seems to me that It all went wrong when Satan came along in the form of a serpent. When God threw Satan out of Heaven, why couldn't he put him somewhere else in the universe far away from earth?

When God created us humans, He created us all with free will. He wants us to accept Him because we want to, generally because this is the only real love there is. However, in order for us to have choice, there must also be an alternative to God.

As to how Satan comes into the picture, I would hazard a guess that, at the start of creation, God gave those heavenly beings we call angels the same free will to choose Him or oppose Him that He gives us. Satan and his followers were the ones who rejected God and they have struggled ever since to revolt against God and make themselves the center of their own universes.

Rafael · Mar 13, 2007

Calminian said:
The only thing I would disagree with on the previous posts is the the choice of the word "made" instead of "granted" or "allowed." I'm perfectly fine in saying God allowed evil for a good reason. But to say He caused it is problematic. I think even most calvinists would be reluctant to attribute the authorship of sin to God. The Bible even refutes the idea of God causing temptation.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

By creating evil to bring about good does not constitute "doing" evil which James is talking about. Indeed, God is not tempted by evil. God did not do evil by creating it, as God is All in all, creating "all" things and has to make no apologies for their creation since they all end in His good and perfect Holy will.... Please, read Isaiah 45 again, and see that there is a big difference in creating something and then whether or not guilt of "doing" evil can be associated to God for bringing about what had to be done in creation so that His ultimate good will would be accompished. I think not, God does no evilin creating it in the angel Lucifer who fell away, and since the ultimate end is the revelation of God and the sharing of His divine nature with man.....a very wonderful end.

Ben12 · Mar 13, 2007

Calminian said:
Amen.

Lucifer; is he really the devil?

Genesis 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the MAN whom he had formed.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. In the natural it is speaking of a King and in the spiritual it is speaking of Adam. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

When Adam was placed in Eden he was perfect. When Adam fell he fell from a lofty realm. He was cast out of that realm. Adam because of the fall caused Kingdoms to shake and made the world as a wilderness. The fall brought us down into this realm of vanity. Adam was the1st Adam and Jesus is the last Adam.

Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan)

Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

In the beginning Man was full of light and Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel

Calminian · Mar 13, 2007

Rafael said:
By creating evil to bring about good does not constitute "doing" evil which James is talking about.

Sure it does. If one creates a killer robot, the creator is responsible for what it does. If it does evil, who is to blame? For a more realistic illustration, if one creates a computer virus, we don't blame the virus, but the programmer. Conversely, if one brings a child into the world which grows up to be a murderer, we don't come after the parents. The difference being human freedom. We have a choice.

Rafael said:
Indeed, God is not tempted by evil. God did not do evil by creating it, as God is All in all, creating "all" things and has to make no apologies for their creation since they all end in His good and perfect Holy will....

Actually creation was very good from the beginning (Gen. 1:31). Adam was not pre-programmed to fall. He had a choice. The Curse was God's response to that choice.

Rafael said:
Please, read Isaiah 45 again, and see that there is a big difference in creating something and then whether or not guilt of "doing" evil can be associated to God for bringing about what had to be done in creation so that His ultimate good will would be accomplished. I think not, God does no evilin creating it in the angel Lucifer who fell away, and since the ultimate end is the revelation of God and the sharing of His divine nature with man.....a very wonderful end.

God does not create evil. Everything He created was "very good." This is straight from scripture. And all He does is just. He is not the author of sin. You are simply taking the words in Isaiah out of context. The word in that context means "calamities," and God is not evil for causing them. He has judged the world, not in evil, but in righteousness.

AngelsSword · Mar 13, 2007

Calminian so you are offering the idea that satan and demons are NOT on the earth and do not influence us earthly inhabitants?!!!! hahahaha please send me a PM i am very anxious to discuss this with you

Calminian · Mar 13, 2007

AngelsSword said:
Calminian so you are offering the idea that satan and demons are NOT on the earth and do not influence us earthly inhabitants?!!!!

Yikes, where'd you get that from?

AngelsSword said:
..please send me a PM i am very anxious to discuss this with you

Uh, yeah, thanks I'll pass.

Calminian · Mar 13, 2007

Ben12 said:
Calminian said:

Amen.

Lucifer; is he really the devil?

Genesis 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the MAN whom he had formed.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. In the natural it is speaking of a King and in the spiritual it is speaking of Adam. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

When Adam was placed in Eden he was perfect. When Adam fell he fell from a lofty realm. He was cast out of that realm. Adam because of the fall caused Kingdoms to shake and made the world as a wilderness. The fall brought us down into this realm of vanity. Adam was the1st Adam and Jesus is the last Adam.

Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan)

Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNINGand abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING.For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

In the beginning Man was full of light and Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel

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I sure wish you would post in the appropriate forums. This is an interesting subject, but way off topic. You could post it in General Theology and we could dig in til our hearts are content. But I can hear the mods' footsteps getting louder.

AngelsSword · Mar 13, 2007

i bet!

AngelsSword · Mar 13, 2007

thank you for the tip and i printed out all the post you gave and will research dont mean to ruffle your feathers or anyone elses
but if i have to then i will

Why Did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve?

Only time enough for love

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