Why Christianity?

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

I would like to know how do you know that Christianity is true? What makes you think the world was flooded, the universe was created in 6 days, the world is less than 10,000 years old, a donkey spoke to it's master, that a God destroyed an entire city, that people rose from the dead, that water turned to wine, that an all powerful, all knowing, all loving deity exists, and many more amazing claims made by the bible that seem to conflict with how we know the world to operate. What evidence is there beyond emotional feelings can give reason to believe these things?

ContentInHim · Jun 6, 2007

Well, those things may conflict with how you believe the world operates, but they do not conflict with how I believe the world operates.

I know that Jesus is savior of the world because I am born-again and now see the world with spiritual eyes rather than physical eyes. 10 years ago, I would have agreed with you. The fact that I'm now 180 degrees different from who I was 10 years ago is my proof! Only God could have effected that change!

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

ContentInHim said:
Well, those things may conflict with how you believe the world operates, but they do not conflict with how I believe the world operates.

Only evidence can shine light on the issue, therefore I ask for some to support the claims Christians make. I just go with what I evidence I can observe. Let's see what you brought me.

ContentInHim said:
I know that Jesus is savior of the world because I am born-again and now see the world with spiritual eyes rather than physical eyes.

A muslim convert could say the same thing to support his claim, which contradicts yours. I could say that because I converted to Atheism I can see the world with rational eyes and therefore know the truth. It doesn't work that way. You need to show this is so, otherwise you can't expect anyone to accept it.

ContentInHim said:
10 years ago, I would have agreed with you. The fact that I'm now 180 degrees different from who I was 10 years ago is my proof! Only God could have effected that change!

Think again, Muslims change their lives also when they convert. Does that mean that Allah exists and that he is responsible for the change. No, it is a choice on how to live. You make the changes in your life, not God. This is far from proof.

None of what you showed me here is any evidence for Christianity being truth.

aiki · Jun 6, 2007

I would like to know how do you know that Christianity is true? What makes you think the world was flooded, the universe was created in 6 days, the world is less than 10,000 years old, a donkey spoke to it's master, that a God destroyed an entire city, that people rose from the dead, that water turned to wine, that an all powerful, all knowing, all loving deity exists, and many more amazing claims made by the bible that seem to conflict with how we know the world to operate. What evidence is there beyond emotional feelings can give reason to believe these things?

I considered the evidence in favor of what the Bible claims and decided it was enough for me to believe. Simple, eh? I read books like "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh MacDowell, "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, and "Can Man Live Without God?, by Ravi Zacharias. I pondered the information available at sites like Answers in Genesis and realized the Bible was far more believable than it is often painted by certain folk as being. I'd highly recommend you do the same -- if you really want answers to your question, that is.

Peace to you.

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

aiki said:
I considered the evidence in favor of what the Bible claims and decided it was enough for me to believe. Simple, eh? I read books like "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh MacDowell, "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, and "Can Man Live Without God?, by Ravi Zacharias. I pondered the information available at sites like Answers in Genesis and realized the Bible was far more believable than it is often painted by certain folk as being. I'd highly recommend you do the same -- if you really want answers to your question, that is.

Peace to you.

Interesting, I may take a look at them some time. But, I am not at all interested in doing a full search in the existence God, nor in the existence of unicorns or faries either. I want some straight forward answers; that is why I'm here.

aiki · Jun 6, 2007

Interesting, I may take a look at them some time. But, I am not at all interested in doing a full search in the existence God, nor in the existence of unicorns or faries either. I want some straight forward answers; that is why I'm here.

Not interested in doing a "full search on the existence of God"? Do you always come at questions you have this way?

The books and site I referenced will answer exhaustively all the initial questions you posted on this thread -- and many more. And they'll be as straightforward as you can bear. Seems to me, if you really wanted answers, you'd pick up the books I mentioned and give 'em a look over.

I'm glad to hear you aren't looking for evidence for the existence of fairies and unicorns -- especially when you've got more serious questions to address about your Maker.

Peace to you.

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

aiki said:
Not interested in doing a "full search on the existence of God"? Do you always come at questions you have this way?

Only the extraordinary claims do I question, such as the existence of the Christian God, Allah, Zeus, etc.

aiki said:
The books and site I referenced will answer exhaustively all the initial questions you posted on this thread -- and many more.

I'd really like to hear the arguments from someone on this forum. That way I can respond, unlike with the books.

aiki said:
Seems to me, if you really wanted answers, you'd pick up the books I mentioned and give 'em a look over.

It seems if there really were answers, they would have given them to me already.

aiki said:
I'm glad to hear you aren't looking for evidence for the existence of fairies and unicorns -- especially when you've got more serious questions to address about your Maker.

You assume that the Christian God is the "Maker", which doesn't mean anything to me.

Can you tell me what evidence showed you that the Christian God exists?

calidog · Jun 6, 2007

A teacher is using the "scientific method" to teach the class
TEACHER: Tommy do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. He doesn't exist.

A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl questioned the boy.

LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss (getting tired of the questions this time).
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see the teacher's mind?
TOMMY: No.
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one!

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

calidog said:
A teacher is using the "scientific method" to teach the class
TEACHER: Tommy do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. He doesn't exist.

A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl questioned the boy.

LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss (getting tired of the questions this time).
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see the teacher's mind?
TOMMY: No.
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one!

Very funny indeed!

But... you could go with that argument and wonder on forever and forever whether or not certain things exist. Plus, I don't like arguements from ignorence.

I see the little analogy here though:
Teacher = things you Observe (sky/tree/etc)
assumption of the teacher's mind Mind = assumption of the existence of God

But... I do have some issues with this analogy. You don't really know if the teacher has a mind; it may be a hologram of an animation or just a programmed robot. You should also remember that the teacher does not merely exist like the sky, but also shows signs of intelligence. You, yourself have intelligence, and you also have similar make ups. You are of the same species. So, you assume that the teacher has the same things as you, like a mind perhaps. So, it didn't exactly come from nothing. The boy assumes the existence of the teacher's mind and is affirmed by the teacher's actions, relationships and similarities to him so that he finally comes to the conclusion that s/he also has a mind. It's not the same as to assume that everything was created by an intelligence. Even if, you would come across the delimma of which God or creature to give all of or part of the credit.

Just because certain things exist, doesn't mean that the Christian God is real.

calidog · Jun 6, 2007

Thanks for not hammering me for my stupid analogy.

God Himself delares the very existence of the universe and the remarkable way in which it works as evidence He exists. Unfortunately this debate goes on and on. The unbeliever in an invisible God continues to argue it all came about from nothing and it is just by chance that it works so well.

If you believe that a God or creater must exist, but which one is it, then you may find that the God of the bible is the most reasonable explanation, if you read it through.

ContentInHim · Jun 6, 2007

Zor said:
Only evidence can shine light on the issue, therefore I ask for some to support the claims Christians make. I just go with what I evidence I can observe. Let's see what you brought me.

A muslim convert could say the same thing to support his claim, which contradicts yours. I could say that because I converted to Atheism I can see the world with rational eyes and therefore know the truth. It doesn't work that way. You need to show this is so, otherwise you can't expect anyone to accept it.

Think again, Muslims change their lives also when they convert. Does that mean that Allah exists and that he is responsible for the change. No, it is a choice on how to live. You make the changes in your life, not God. This is far from proof.

None of what you showed me here is any evidence for Christianity being truth.

Well, this forum is not for providing evidence - that's GA where the evidence is debated.

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

calidog said:
Thanks for not hammering me for my stupid joke.

Oh, I didn't know you were just making a joke about it. I thought you had intended to make an argument from it or something. I did say it was funny to keep it friendly. I didn't mean to "hammer" you for a joke, not at all.

calidog said:
God Himself delares the very existence of the universe and the remarkable way in which it works as evidence He exists.

As I described earlier, existence doesn't give evidence for anything but of its own existence. The universe exists, you can't extrapolate any information about unseeable things. God doesn't declare anything, people do. You cannot come to the conclusion of the Christian God unless someone told you about it. That's because there isn't any evidence for him.

calidog said:
Unfortunately this debate goes on and on. The unbeliever in an invisible God continues to argue it all came about from nothing and it is just by chance that it works so well.

Whoa. I think you have Atheism confused with something else. Atheism doesn't say that everything came from nothing or from a God, I don't know that, and neither do you (from the lack of evidence shown). I don't know, I don't expect to know so easily, if at all. So, when a Christian claims to know, I'll ask for the evidence to that claim. I make no claim, myself.

calidog said:
If you believe that a God or creater must exist, but which one is it, then you may find that the God of the bible is the most reasonable explanation, if you read it through.

Just because it is the more reasonable idea doesn't make it true. EVIDENCE will show the truth of an idea.

ContentInHim said:
Well, this forum is not for providing evidence - that's GA where the evidence is debated.

Oh, well. I thought that Christians would have evidence for their claims on hand somewhere. I guess there is none. And btw, I did ask the same thing in GA. I just wanted more Christians answering questions instead of Christians debating other Atheists. I didn't ask for a debate either, just wanted the evidence which I did not recieve.

AvgJoe · Jun 6, 2007

Zor said:
I would like to know how do you know that Christianity is true? What makes you think the world was flooded, the universe was created in 6 days, the world is less than 10,000 years old, a donkey spoke to it's master, that a God destroyed an entire city, that people rose from the dead, that water turned to wine, that an all powerful, all knowing, all loving deity exists, and many more amazing claims made by the bible that seem to conflict with how we know the world to operate. What evidence is there beyond emotional feelings can give reason to believe these things?

Prophecy, with an accuracy rating of 100%. No other religion, or religious text, can make the same claim.

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

AvgJoe said:
Prophecy, with an accuracy rating of 100%. No other religion, or religious text, can make the same claim.

Oh. What were the prophecies? I need them all so that I can see if it's indeed 100%. All.

AvgJoe · Jun 6, 2007

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/

Zor · Jun 6, 2007

AvgJoe said:
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/

Now this is what I asked for. Thank you very much.

AvgJoe · Jun 6, 2007

Zor said:
Now this is what I asked for. Thank you very much.

You're welcome & God bless!

MethodMan · Jun 6, 2007

Just a reminder, this is not a debate forum

gluadys · Jun 6, 2007

Zor said:
I would like to know how do you know that Christianity is true? What makes you think the world was flooded, the universe was created in 6 days, the world is less than 10,000 years old, a donkey spoke to it's master, that a God destroyed an entire city,

Up to this point, none of this is essential to Christianity.

that people rose from the dead, that water turned to wine, that an all powerful, all knowing, all loving deity exists,

Now we have essentials.

What evidence is there beyond emotional feelings can give reason to believe these things?

I think there is more than emotional feeling involved although the experience of the holy always includes emotion. The evidence is primarily personal experience. That is why Christianity is spread through witnessing and testimony, and above all, the testimony of lives lived in accordance with Christ's command to love. Evidence of a scientific sort cannot be used to establish the truth of faith.

I expect that what people find most convincing in Christianity (or any faith) is that it provides a meaning and purpose to life and sustains them in hope and courage to endure the inevitable sufferings and sorrows of existence.

ebia · Jun 7, 2007

Zor said:
I would like to know how do you know that Christianity is true?

My experience of God is sufficient to trust that he is leading me in the right faith.

What makes you think the world was flooded;
the universe was created in 6 days, the world is less than 10,000 years old,

I don't, I don't and I don't.

a donkey spoke to it's master,

Seems pretty unlikely.

that a God destroyed an entire city,

I don't

that people rose from the dead,

Because of the strong evidence that he did.

that water turned to wine,

Happens every year around here.

that an all powerful, all knowing, all loving deity exists,

Because I know him.

Why Christianity?

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