Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

Lion King · May 23, 2011

INTJ-F said:
The problem of the "reformers"is they only reformed a few doctrines they disagreed with while leaving much false doctrine intact. It's too bad they did not RESTORE the faith back to how it was taught by Messiah Yeshua.

Can you just name in bullet points what's wrong with the current mainstream Christian doctrines being taught today? Im interested to know the views of Isreal in regards to Jesus Christ/Messiah Yeshua teachings (reason being that I kinda agree with you on the last point you made).

Thank you in advance.

LittleLambofJesus · May 23, 2011

Originally Posted by INTJ-F

The problem of the "reformers"is they only reformed a few doctrines they disagreed with while leaving much false doctrine intact. It's too bad they did not RESTORE the faith back to how it was taught by Messiah Yeshua.

Inquiring minds want to know!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7515165/
Was the "Reformation" a failure?

quote OP:
If Luther* and his peers did not intend to create new sects but rather reform the Church known as the "Catholic Church," then wouldn't we have to say the "Reformation" was a failure? The Catholic Church still retains wide membership, worldly presence, and teachings on Purgatory, Papacy, Justification, etc... contrary to those who sought to get these teachings changed or negated. The Council of Trent repeated emphatically so many things the "Reformers" sought to "correct." Therefore, should the Reformation foremost be classified as a failure? I'd have to think yes. And I think Luther, were he still alive, would agree.

INTJ-F · May 23, 2011

Can you just name in bullet points what's wrong with the current mainstream Christian doctrines being taught today? Im interested to know the views of Isreal in regards to Jesus Christ/Messiah Yeshua teachings (reason being that I kinda agree with you on the last point you made).

christmas
easter
Shabbat
kosher
idols (cross, etc.)
calvanism
arminianism
etc.

Lion King · May 23, 2011

INTJ-F said:
christmas

easter

Shabbat

kosher

idols (cross, etc.)

calvanism

arminianism

etc.

To be honest with you, this wasn't the answer I was looking for (although i do agree with you on the idols, calvinism, arminianism parts). Do you want Christians to live under the Jewish Law?

Are you insisting I should eat certain meats only or observe certain days to gain salvation?

LittleLambofJesus · May 23, 2011

INTJ-F said:
christmas

easter

Shabbat

kosher

idols (cross, etc.)

calvanism

arminianism

etc.

Is the "kosher" part about not eating pig

INTJ-F · May 23, 2011

To be honest with you, this wasn't the answer I was looking for (although i do agree with you on the idols, calvinism, arminianism parts). Do you want Christians to live under the Jewish Law?

What Jewish law? You mean God's law that He gave to those who are part of Israel (whether born in or grafted in) ?

Messiah Yeshua expects us to obey God and do His will. To do otherwise is sin. If anyone taught / teaches to disobey God, they are false teachers.

If Yeshua taught to disobey God, He was a false messiah. He did NOT teach disobedience - that came with the romans, luther, calvin, etc. All of the early church obeyed God and His Torah. it was not until the Bar Kokhba Revolt that the church began to widely incorporate paganism, idolatry, etc. into the church. In the ~400's, most of the church was so worldly they accepted the incorporation of the church with paganism under Constantine.

Read the bible straight through for yourself (Genesis - Revelation) and ask God to reveal His truth to you. Your eyes will be open to what most so-called pastors are hiding from you as they pick and choose which passages to teach sunday morning.

ricker · May 23, 2011

visionary said:
Martin Luther, the reformer, was a vegetarian.. Vegetarians in History

He identified with the higher levels of abstainance and adopted a vegetarian diet. He was against indulgence, and at the time he was in the monastic life, meat was usually reserved for sick people. He was against all forms of greed and corporal pleasure, which had been so prevalent in that time of the catholic church, he also devoted him self to fasting and purity in soul and body.

I would really like to see some kind of proof of this. I don't believe it. It's a fact he sure drank a lot of beer.

LittleLambofJesus · May 23, 2011

INTJ-F said:
What Jewish law? You mean God's law that He gave to those who are part of Israel (whether born in or grafted in) ?

Messiah Yeshua expects us to obey God and do His will. To do otherwise is sin. If anyone taught / teaches to disobey God, they are false teachers.<snip>.

What about MJs that claim to be Jewish converts eating pork?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7558205-44/
I consider myself a messianic and I eat pork!

*snip OP:
I'm born a Hebrew. And after becoming a Messianic I used to eat as Kosher as I could.. but one day when i was reading through Mark's account of the gospel.. i realized I wasn't being a very good Jewish Christian. Sure I had the Jew part down pat but I was missing something on the Christian side of things..

ghendricks63 · May 23, 2011

INTJ-F said:
Read the bible straight through for yourself (Genesis - Revelation) and ask God to reveal His truth to you. Your eyes will be open to what most so-called pastors are hiding from you as they pick and choose which passages to teach sunday morning.

This just seems like a poor way to avoid admitting you really don't have an answer...LOL

INTJ-F · May 23, 2011

Are you insisting I should eat certain meats only or observe certain days to gain salvation?

I do not insist on anything. God is the one that said eating certain creatures (including swine and shellfish) is an abomination to Him. He was the one who put keeping His Shabbat Holy in His ten commandments

God says you are to eat what HE calls meat - not the re-definition of what is and is not acceptable to Him. If you choose to disobey what God says, one has to wonder if you really love Him because you certainly are not following / obeying Him.

If you refuse to obey God by claiming you will do as you want without regard to what He wants, one would have to question if you are saved. Ezekiel is clear God is not happy with those who claim to be following Him by worshiping Him THEIR way instead of the way He said He wants to be worshiped. He nearly wiped Israel out when they made the golden calf. He was angry with Israel for having easter celebrations / sunrise services in the Holy Temple. He was angry when they worshiped the brass serpent instead of seeing it was He that gave them healing and not the relic that was made (a foreshadow of those who worship the cross today)

Observe any day you want - either the one God said to keep as His Shabbat or a day of your choosing that God did not say to keep. If you refuse to obey God, Messiah Yeshua said He will reject you even though you claim to have done many works for Him.

Salvation is a free gift - Obedience is a sign you have really accepted Yeshua as LORD instead of just a Savior from eternal punishment. Lord means submission to His authority.

ghendricks63 · May 23, 2011

INTJ-F said:
Observe any day you want - either the one God said to keep as His Shabbat or a day of your choosing that God did not say to keep. If you refuse to obey God, Messiah Yeshua said He will reject you even though you claim to have done many works for Him.

Salvation is a free gift - Obedience is a sign you have really accepted Yeshua as LORD instead of just a Savior from eternal punishment. Lord means submission to His authority.

Interesting statement. Of course you do realize Romans 14 declares that EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. This then MUST mean that all will one day receive Him. Cool!!!

Migdala · May 23, 2011

It is taught in the New Testament that all things are good to eat, but not all things are good for us. Pig tastes GOOD-I love it! But, I also know that pigs eat their own vomit, and anything in their path....so it's easy to get parasites or other stomach problems from eating pig. The unclean foods in the Old Testament were given for a reason-they may be biblically Ok to eat if your faith is strong, but at the same time, they may harm your health in some way. Shrimp and crab are awesome-but they eat the waste on the bottom of the ocean! So when we eat them, we're eating whatever they ate! Jesus says they don't make us unclean, but I think He was referring to spiritually unclean, because it's the things that come out of our hearts that make us spiritually unclean. If you feel it's Ok to eat pig, then go for it!

ricker · May 23, 2011

visionary said:
Yeah.. I agree he wasn't perfect, nor far from the tree he came from..

He certainly was not personally perfect (who is), but what a spiritual mind! He almost singlehandedly brought the RC church to it's knees. He also translated the Bible to German. God used him to bring Christianity back to what it should have been all along. Read some of his writings sometime, I would recommend "Bondage of the Will".

sdmsanjose · May 24, 2011

Are you insisting I should eat certain meats only or observe certain days to gain salvation?

I do not insist on anything. God is the one that said eating certain creatures (including swine and shellfish) is an abomination to Him. He was the one who put keeping His Shabbat Holy in His ten commandments

God says you are to eat what HE calls meat - not the re-definition of what is and is not acceptable to Him. If you choose to disobey what God says, one has to wonder if you really love Him because you certainly are not following / obeying Him.

If you refuse to obey God by claiming you will do as you want without regard to what He wants, one would have to question if you are saved. Ezekiel is clear God is not happy with those who claim to be following Him by worshiping Him THEIR way instead of the way He said He wants to be worshiped. He nearly wiped Israel out when they made the golden calf. He was angry with Israel for having easter celebrations / sunrise services in the Holy Temple. He was angry when they worshiped the brass serpent instead of seeing it was He that gave them healing and not the relic that was made (a foreshadow of those who worship the cross today)

Observe any day you want - either the one God said to keep as His Shabbat or a day of your choosing that God did not say to keep. If you refuse to obey God, Messiah Yeshua said He will reject you even though you claim to have done many works for Him.

Salvation is a free gift - Obedience is a sign you have really accepted Yeshua as LORD instead of just a Savior from eternal punishment. Lord means submission to His authority.

To INTJ

I read part of a book by a Natsari Jew, a believer in Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ to many Christians). He asked a question then answered. Reprinted below are his statements

"So how many commandments are Christians still supposed to keep?" "That makes a
Total of 271 for people outside of Israel and 297 for people inside Israel"

So are we to keep 271 if we are outside Israel or 297 for those outside Israel?

Do you keep all 271 or 297?

INTJ-F · May 24, 2011

So are we to keep 271 if we are outside Israel or 297 for those outside Israel?

Do you keep all 271 or 297?

So you are going by what some person wrote instead of what God says? That's the problem with mainstream "christianity" - they prefer to follow man rather than God.

I obey God and what He says. He clearly says eating swine and shellfish is an abomination. He included keeping Shabbat in the Ten Commandments. If you choose to intentionally disobey His will and what He says, you will suffer the consequences for your actions.

Even Noah, before the law was given to Moses, knew which animals were clean and which were not.

Most of mainstream "christianity" thinks God's Torah can be repealed by popular consensus. It didn't work in Ezekiel's time and it doesn't work today - God expects OBEDIENCE. If you refuse to obey Him, then you have not really accepted Yeshua as Messiah and LORD of your life (you may believe He exists and feel you are His but He will reject those who refuse to obey God)

Next the mainstream "christians" will want to repeal the Nine Commandments --- oops - many have already repealed the one about committing adultery, most have repealed the one on idolatry, and several others have been repealed by various "churches" - yet they are the first ones to whine and cry when the TEN Commandments are removed from public places.

It's obvious you have absolutely no idea of what is and isn't in the law because you whine and cry about it without even realizing you keep most of them too. Since you keep some of them, you must keep all of them???

613 commandments 613 Mitzvot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A few examples of God's Laws "christians" refuse to obey (why "christianity" is as fallen away as it is) :

Not to try the LORD unduly
Not to oppress the weak
Not to take revenge
Not to listen to a false prophet
Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God
Not to tattoo the skin
A man must not have sexual relations with a man
Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife
Not to crossbreed animals
Not to withhold charity from the poor
Not to steal money stealthily
Each individual must ensure that his scales and weights are accurate
Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property
Not to kidnap
Not to rob openly
Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt
Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession
Not to murder
Not to stand idly by if someone's life is in danger
Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property
Make a guard rail around flat roofs
Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload)
Not to testify falsely
Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations
Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part

Yes, I obey all of these as well as all of the others that I possibly can (keeping slaves ia illegal so the laws about how to treat slaves is irrelevant unless slavery became legal again)

Lion King · May 24, 2011

INTJ-F said:
What Jewish law? You mean God's law that He gave to those who are part of Israel (whether born in or grafted in) ?

Messiah Yeshua expects us to obey God and do His will. To do otherwise is sin. If anyone taught / teaches to disobey God, they are false teachers.

If Yeshua taught to disobey God, He was a false messiah. He did NOT teach disobedience - that came with the romans, luther, calvin, etc. All of the early church obeyed God and His Torah. it was not until the Bar Kokhba Revolt that the church began to widely incorporate paganism, idolatry, etc. into the church. In the ~400's, most of the church was so worldly they accepted the incorporation of the church with paganism under Constantine.

Read the bible straight through for yourself (Genesis - Revelation) and ask God to reveal His truth to you. Your eyes will be open to what most so-called pastors are hiding from you as they pick and choose which passages to teach sunday morning.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

Jesus Christ (New Covenant) freed us from the Law, but it is only by faith in Him that we establish the Law itself. The law was never abolished or done away with but those who live in the Spirit automatically meet the requirements of the law (i.e the fruit of the Spirit).

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:37-40

Therefor, LOVE fulfills the law of the prophets. Can LOVE do any wrong?

If you continue to live under the Law, then it means this:"But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." Galatians 3:10

Conclusively,"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love." Galatians 5:6

Lion King · May 24, 2011

INTJ-F said:
So you are going by what some person wrote instead of what God says? That's the problem with mainstream "christianity" - they prefer to follow man rather than God.

A few examples of God's Laws "christians" refuse to obey (why "christianity" is as fallen away as it is) :

Not to try the LORD unduly

Not to oppress the weak

Not to take revenge

Not to listen to a false prophet

Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God

Not to tattoo the skin

A man must not have sexual relations with a man

Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife

Not to crossbreed animals

Not to withhold charity from the poor

Not to steal money stealthily

Each individual must ensure that his scales and weights are accurate

Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property

Not to kidnap

Not to rob openly

Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt

Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession

Not to murder

Not to stand idly by if someone's life is in danger

Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property

Make a guard rail around flat roofs

Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload)

Not to testify falsely

Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations

Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part

Yes, I obey all of these as well as all of the others that I possibly can (keeping slaves ia illegal so the laws about how to treat slaves is irrelevant unless slavery became legal again)

Aren't all the Laws you have just stated summarised by love thy LORD with all your heart and love thy neighbor? How can we disobey any of God's law, when we walk in the Spirit:, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Salvation is only found through the cross of Christ.

sdmsanjose · May 24, 2011

Quote of sdmsanjose
are we to keep 271 if we are outside Israel or 297 for those outside Israel?

Do you keep all 271 or 297?

Reply by INTJ-F
So you are going by what some person wrote instead of what God says? That's the problem with mainstream "Christianity" - they prefer to follow man rather than God.
I was asking your position on an issue I read in a messianic Jew text; you need not make an insinuation that I follow what people write rather than God.

I obey God and what He says. He clearly says eating swine and shellfish is an abomination. He included keeping Shabbat in the Ten Commandments. If you choose to intentionally disobey His will and what He says, you will suffer the consequences for your actions.
According to your interpretation what are the consequences?
Do we lose our salvation?
Even Noah, before the law was given to Moses, knew which animals were clean and which were not.

Most of mainstream "christianity" thinks God's Torah can be repealed by popular consensus. It didn't work in Ezekiel's time and it doesn't work today - God expects OBEDIENCE. If you refuse to obey Him, then you have not really accepted Yeshua as Messiah and LORD of your life (you may believe He exists and feel you are His but He will reject those who refuse to obey God)

Next the mainstream "christians" will want to repeal the Nine Commandments --- oops - many have already repealed the one about committing adultery, most have repealed the one on idolatry, and several others have been repealed by various "churches" - yet they are the first ones to whine and cry when the TEN Commandments are removed from public places.

It's obvious you have absolutely no idea of what is and isn't in the law because you whine and cry about it without even realizing you keep most of them too. Since you keep some of them, you must keep all of them???
Whoa hold on, calm down Mr. Judgment! I asked one question to see where you stand and now you judge me as whining and crying? You do not even know me or my positions as this is the first my first post on this section of the forum.
Did God appoint you to judge all of main stream Christianity? You made some pretty general statements below about a huge body of Christians
QUOTES of INTF-F
That's the problem with mainstream "christianity" - they prefer to follow man rather than God.
Most of mainstream "christianity" thinks God's Torah can be repealed by popular consensus
Next the mainstream "christians" will want to repeal the Nine Commandments ---
I wrote my post to you as my son and I have been having a discussion about Messianic Jews and I thought that you may be able to clarify how you interpret the scriptures and give me some insight on some messianic Jews position on what they believe is required for salvation and for maintaining salvation
You seem more interested in judging me and main stream Christianity. Now if you want to have a discussion whereby we can exchange information I will continue. On the other hand, if you want to point out my failures and the main stream Christianity failures and present yourself as spiritually superior than some Christians then I will find someone else to have a discussion with.

ricker · May 25, 2011

INTJ-F said:
A few examples of God's Laws "christians" refuse to obey (why "christianity" is as fallen away as it is) :

Not to try the LORD unduly

Not to oppress the weak

Not to take revenge

Not to listen to a false prophet

Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God

Not to tattoo the skin

A man must not have sexual relations with a man

Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife

Not to crossbreed animals

Not to withhold charity from the poor

Not to steal money stealthily

Each individual must ensure that his scales and weights are accurate

Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property

Not to kidnap

Not to rob openly

Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt

Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession

Not to murder

Not to stand idly by if someone's life is in danger

Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property

Make a guard rail around flat roofs

Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload)

Not to testify falsely

Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations

Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part

Yes, I obey all of these as well as all of the others that I possibly can (keeping slaves ia illegal so the laws about how to treat slaves is irrelevant unless slavery became legal again)

You make quite a claim. You must be some kind of a saint.

INTJ-F · May 25, 2011

Salvation is only found through the cross of Christ.

Lawless - Without Torah

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

Veni, vidi, vici

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Veni, vidi, vici

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Veni, vidi, vici

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