Why bother being pure? Just get forgiven.

Mr.Cheese · Oct 27, 2005

This is funny.
I spoke with a Muslim once who was critical of Christians because our moral fortitude did not match what we claimed. He said something to the effect that all you have when you stand before Allah is what you have done in this life.
If we saw things more in that way we'd probably not be so wanting of integrity.

Princess_333 · Oct 28, 2005

Deb7777 said:
I fear to think how much worse the world would be without God's revelation of rewards and punishments, heaven and hell.

So by that statement I guess it would be safe to assume that you are supressing your urges to kill and harm people just because god let you know what his punishments for that will be?

To actually claim that people are only good because they fear the punishment is rather ignorant. I personally doubt god's existance and therefore do not fear his punishments or await his rewards, but I'm still a good person that doesn't lie, cheat, steal or plot on killing people.

It seems like you're making the claim that christians are good people just to get the rewards and avoid the punishements. I'm not sure how many xians would agree with you on that one.

Deb7777 said:
God, being all powerful, is completely free, nobody can overpower him, he didn't have to be a good God, he could have been a self-seeking, pleasure-filled, power hungry dictator, only looking after his own self-interest. Why did this all powerful being, being free, choose to be a God of love and Virtue. Apparently, Vice, immorality, impurity could not interest a being who is Love. God calls you and I to love!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this statement.
Let's assume that God existed and that he was a power hungry dictator. What kinds of things would he be doing to make him a power hungry dictator type?...I'm not sure what he's doing now to be a good and loving god, so what would he be doing if he was the opposite of what you think he is?
Please elaborate

thanks

Merlin · Oct 28, 2005

As we grow closer to our Lord, and focus on Him, we simply lose interest in those things which are 'not pure'.

Sure we could do whatever we want.
But life with Jesus gives us a new "wanter"

United · Oct 29, 2005

Princess_333 said:
To actually claim that people are only good because they fear the punishment is rather ignorant. I personally doubt god's existance and therefore do not fear his punishments or await his rewards, but I'm still a good person that doesn't lie, cheat, steal or plot on killing people.

Hi there Princess,

Can I suggest you read a few books written by those who have experienced the communist (atheistic) prison camps (e.g. The Gulag Archipelago). There is no limit to the depth of human depravity where punishment (from God or society) doesn't exist.

Deb7777 · Oct 29, 2005

Princess_333 said:
So by that statement I guess it would be safe to assume that you are supressing your urges to kill and harm people just because god let you know what his punishments for that will be?

To actually claim that people are only good because they fear the punishment is rather ignorant. I personally doubt god's existance and therefore do not fear his punishments or await his rewards, but I'm still a good person that doesn't lie, cheat, steal or plot on killing people.

It seems like you're making the claim that christians are good people just to get the rewards and avoid the punishements. I'm not sure how many xians would agree with you on that one.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this statement.
Let's assume that God existed and that he was a power hungry dictator. What kinds of things would he be doing to make him a power hungry dictator type?...I'm not sure what he's doing now to be a good and loving god, so what would he be doing if he was the opposite of what you think he is?
Please elaborate

thanks

I don't have urges to kill and harm people, the thought of hell and punishments has stop some people from killing other people. If people believe in justice in this world and the next, good for them if that helps them to stay within the law. Congratulations on being a good citizen of this world. Without laws and punishments, I fear you and I would be living out in the desert with a shotgun. We could hope people would choose to do only good and society would be motivated only by pure love. I hope my fellow American is not offended that I fear our Country would be worse off if we didn't have punishments to keep citizens in line. I agree completely with you, people should do things because its the right thing to do and not to avoid the slammer. Christians should absolutely do everything out of love, being good citizens of heaven. If some people are motivated to stay out of hell because of punishment, I think they're wiser than some. If God was a power hungry dictator you wouldn't be an agnostic, you would be a slave. You're free to choose good over evil, your free to choose to honor the Creator for all gifts, your free to choose to believe or not to believe.

Princess_333 · Oct 31, 2005

Deb7777 said:
If God was a power hungry dictator you wouldn't be an agnostic, you would be a slave. You're free to choose good over evil, your free to choose to honor the Creator for all gifts, your free to choose to believe or not to believe.

But what would god benefit from having us be his slaves?
If he can get/do anything he wants just by thinking it and wanting it, what would he need slaves to do his bidding for?

Are you just saying that if god was a power hungry dictator he would make us suffer? is that what you're implying?
Because as I see it, (if he exists) he's already doing that, with tsunamis, earthquakes, oh and cancer, just to name a few...

Princess_333 · Oct 31, 2005

United said:
Hi there Princess,

Can I suggest you read a few books written by those who have experienced the communist (atheistic) prison camps (e.g. The Gulag Archipelago). There is no limit to the depth of human depravity where punishment (from God or society) doesn't exist.

Hey United,
I will read up on that...but first let me suggest that you read about The Crusades...It is pretty shocking to see what some believers do in the name of their god.
Point is, human depravity exists for both those that believe in God's punishments/rewards and for those that don't.

Deb7777 · Nov 1, 2005

Princess_333 said:
But what would god benefit from having us be his slaves?
If he can get/do anything he wants just by thinking it and wanting it, what would he need slaves to do his bidding for?

Are you just saying that if god was a power hungry dictator he would make us suffer? is that what you're implying?
Because as I see it, (if he exists) he's already doing that, with tsunamis, earthquakes, oh and cancer, just to name a few...

God in his wisdom, gave Adam the power to choose good over evil and he did not, bringing sin, death, suffering into this world. Those elements are here to stay until God renews the earth. You can serve the God who let freewill to decide humanity's future or decide such a God is not worthy of your praise and belief. You live in a fallen, imperfect world for a reason, you decide if it's pure chance or sin. P.S. If you have anymore questions, I think it would be best to post it over on the non-christian question board so we don't break the rules on posting on this thread. We're supposed to answer the poster and not debate among ourselves. But you can start your own thread and if its a question, over on the other board would be a perfect place for it.

Princess_333 · Nov 2, 2005

Deb7777 said:
God in his wisdom, gave Adam the power to choose good over evil and he did not, bringing sin, death, suffering into this world. Those elements are here to stay until God renews the earth. You can serve the God who let freewill to decide humanity's future or decide such a God is not worthy of your praise and belief. You live in a fallen, imperfect world for a reason, you decide if it's pure chance or sin. P.S. If you have anymore questions, I think it would be best to post it over on the non-christian question board so we don't break the rules on posting on this thread. We're supposed to answer the poster and not debate among ourselves. But you can start your own thread and if its a question, over on the other board would be a perfect place for it.

Well, thanks Deb for completely ignoring the question

PorcelainHeart · Nov 2, 2005

Morals and being good are very important even if you are a non-christian. I've become a non-christian because so many christians were without morals, they thought they could be cruel as they want and still go to heaven.

At a methodist church I went to they said hurricanes, storms and pain just happen they aren't GOD's judgement, God is there for the healing. I usually don't listen to the sermons, but that one caught my attention. I usually go to this church against my will.

Deb7777 · Nov 2, 2005

Princess_333 said:
Well, thanks Deb for completely ignoring the question

I guess the question was not clear enough for me to answer because I felt I did address the question. Post your question over on the non-christian question board, maybe I'll see the question in a different light. I' ll try to answer it the best I can, along with others who might have a different perspective.

Harlan Norris · Nov 2, 2005

Arteryman said:
I hate how people even bother to have morals and try not to sin, if Jesus died for ALL our sins what's the point of even attempting to be pure? We could do whatever we want and then simply beg and grovel for his forgiveness and BAM instant Go To Heaven pass.

One of Jesus commandments is love the lord your God with all your heart and all your strength.If one does this they will obey the ten commandments to the very best of their ability. This they will do willingly. If one is not willing to obey God, ones faith is in question.

Observer · Nov 4, 2005

If you sin repeatedly without any effort to correct yourself... you'll weaken in your spirituality and relationship with God... which makes your life more difficult and painful... relying on luck and your own capabilities, which are limited without God, I feel

Being a good person is part of respecting God... if you don't respect God... how can you truly believe in him? God may forgive you over and over if you sin, but how can he forgive you if you sin so much that you gradually don't believe him anymore, and can't ask for it anymore?

Chucky · Nov 4, 2005

y shud ppl "obey" something that no 1 knos for sure exists???

Why bother being pure? Just get forgiven.

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