Why are you an evolutionist?

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

Strathos · Nov 2, 2015

Because all of the evidence points to it.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

Strathos said:
Because all of the evidence points to it.

'Darwin's theory of evolution explains how species of living things have changed over geological time. The theory is supported by evidence from fossils, and by the rapid changes that can be seen to occur in microorganisms such as antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Many species have become extinct in the past and the extinction of species continues to happen. ....'*

Are you saying we could put an evolutionist on trial and there would be enough evidence to confirm that such a position is supported?

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*- http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/aqa_pre_2011/evolution/evolutionrev1.shtml

Loudmouth · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Why are you an evolutionist?

For the same reason that I am a germist, Einsteinian gravitationalist, and a quantist. That's where the evidence points.

Loudmouth · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
'Darwin's theory of evolution explains how species of living things have changed over geological time. The theory is supported by evidence from fossils, and by the rapid changes that can be seen to occur in microorganisms such as antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Many species have become extinct in the past and the extinction of species continues to happen. ....'*

Are you saying we could put an evolutionist on trial and there would be enough evidence to confirm that such a position is supported?

We would have a 200,000 point DNA match between humans and chimps, well beyond the usual DNA fingerprinting evidence used in court which has a 13 point DNA match.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

Loudmouth said:
We would have a 200,000 point DNA match between humans and chimps, well beyond the usual DNA fingerprinting evidence used in court which has a 13 point DNA match.

Excuse my ignorance but what does that mean? '200,000 point DNA match' ?

Loudmouth · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Excuse my ignorance but what does that mean? '200,000 point DNA match' ?

200,000 independent positions in the genome. These are 200,000 places where we can compare whether or not a genetic marker is present.

Butterfly99 · Nov 2, 2015

I've never heard of that before, "evolutionist". I've never in my life seen such a fuss about evolution as on this forum!!! I don't know who is serious and who is joking. My mom said some people who aren't Christians will say they're Christians and act ignorant to mock us. I guess I'm a round-earther too cause I don't think the earth is flat. Evolution is fact.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

Loudmouth said:
200,000 independent positions in the genome. These are 200,000 places where we can compare whether or not a genetic marker is present.

Thanks for elaborating. Whew!
For us folks who aren't familiar with this sort of thing, is there a layman's handbook which makes this easier to understand?

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

Butterfly99 said:
I've never heard of that before, "evolutionist". I've never in my life seen such a fuss about evolution as on this forum!!! I don't know who is serious and who is joking. My mom said some people who aren't Christians will say they're Christians and act ignorant to mock us. I guess I'm a round-earther too cause I don't think the earth is flat. Evolution is fact.

Good thing you noticed that, for you won't be falling into the trap.* "Keep smiling, keep shining, knowing you can always count on me."

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*- http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evolutionist

Loudmouth · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Thanks for elaborating. Whew!
For us folks who aren't familiar with this sort of thing, is there a layman's handbook which makes this easier to understand?

Yes.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Loudmouth · Nov 2, 2015

Butterfly99 said:
I've never heard of that before, "evolutionist". I've never in my life seen such a fuss about evolution as on this forum!!! I don't know who is serious and who is joking. My mom said some people who aren't Christians will say they're Christians and act ignorant to mock us. I guess I'm a round-earther too cause I don't think the earth is flat. Evolution is fact.

There are still Geocentrists, and many believe that the Sun moves about the Earth because of their (misguided) Christian beliefs.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Yes.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Thank you, that's a very useful link:

'Scientific theories are validated by empirical testing against physical observations. Theories are not judged simply by their logical compatibility with the available data. Independent empirical testability is the hallmark of science—in science, an explanation must not only be compatible with the observed data, it must also be testable. By "testable" we mean that the hypothesis makes predictions about what observable evidence would be consistent and what would be incompatible with the hypothesis. Simple compatibility, in itself, is insufficient as scientific evidence, because all physical observations are consistent with an infinite number of unscientific conjectures. Furthermore, a scientific explanation must make risky predictions— the predictions should be necessary if the theory is correct, and few other theories should make the same necessary predictions. ....'

bhsmte · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
'Darwin's theory of evolution explains how species of living things have changed over geological time. The theory is supported by evidence from fossils, and by the rapid changes that can be seen to occur in microorganisms such as antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Many species have become extinct in the past and the extinction of species continues to happen. ....'*

Are you saying we could put an evolutionist on trial and there would be enough evidence to confirm that such a position is supported?

---
*- http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/aqa_pre_2011/evolution/evolutionrev1.shtml

That trial would be extremely long, to go over all of the evidence and bring in the expert witnesses to explains the fossil, DNA evidence, etc..

The line of experts testifying on behalf of evolution and the amount of evidence would be so overwhelming, even Perry Mason at his best, would throw up his arms.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

bhsmte said:
That trial would be extremely long, to go over all of the evidence and bring in the expert witnesses to explains the fossil, DNA evidence, etc..

The line of experts testifying on behalf of evolution and the amount of evidence would be so overwhelming, even Perry Mason at his best, would throw up his arms.

Hi there. Nice to read your contribution here. I've never watch Perry Mason in action, but I'm sure going to give his show a look. I love who-dun nits.

bhsmte · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Hi there. Nice to read your contribution here. I've never watch Perry Mason in action, but I'm sure going to give his show a look. I love who-dun nits.

Perry was a bad dude, he always to the guilty one to confess and right in open court.

Loudmouth · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Thank you, that's a very useful link:

'Scientific theories are validated by empirical testing against physical observations. Theories are not judged simply by their logical compatibility with the available data. Independent empirical testability is the hallmark of science—in science, an explanation must not only be compatible with the observed data, it must also be testable. By "testable" we mean that the hypothesis makes predictions about what observable evidence would be consistent and what would be incompatible with the hypothesis. Simple compatibility, in itself, is insufficient as scientific evidence, because all physical observations are consistent with an infinite number of unscientific conjectures. Furthermore, a scientific explanation must make risky predictions— the predictions should be necessary if the theory is correct, and few other theories should make the same necessary predictions. ....'

In the case of the 200,000 point DNA comparison, I was referring to endogenous retroviruses.

"Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC17875/

There are 200,000 retroviral insertions in the human genome. These represent 200,000 gene locuses that we can compare to the chimp genome. As it turns out, chimps have the same retroviral insertions 99.9% of the time, far more than should be seen through random viral insertion.

And in case you want to understand how STR allele based DNA fingerprinting works . . .

With standard DNA fingerprinting in court, they look at STR's which are short tandem repeats. These are places in our genome where there are different alleles with a different number of repeats (ATTA vs. ATTAATTA). Some people may have the 3 and 5 repeat alleles specific STR while another person has the 3 and 4 repeat alleles. At each locus there are several alleles. What they add up to is something like a Social Security number or credit card number. While you may have the same number as another card at a specific location, you aren't going to have the same numbers all the way through. The same for STR alleles. The more STR loci you look at the more personal and individual it becomes.

lesliedellow · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Why are you an evolutionist?

Because when there is almost unanimous agreement amongst biologists that it happened, and that irrespective of any individual biologist's religious views, it seems reasonable to conclude that there is a reason for that unanimity. All the more so when the only people I hear arguing against it are creationists, who display their ignorance of what they theory actually says with almost every word they utter.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Nov 2, 2015

lesliedellow said:
Because when there is almost unanimous agreement amongst biologists that it happened, and that irrespective of any individual biologist's religious views, it seems reasonable to conclude that there is a reason for that unanimity. All the more so when the only people I hear arguing against it are creationists, who display their ignorance of what they theory actually says with almost every word they utter.

I wouldn't compare Evolution with Creationism -- that debate died out a long, long, long time ago. ID had us all going for brief moment and I don't recall there being anything by way of an actual scientific challenge to Evolution from the Christian camp - period!

[serious] · Nov 2, 2015

lewiscalledhimmaster said:
Why are you an evolutionist?

While there are many evidences for evolution, the best single one is probably the twin nested hierarchy. Separate nested hierarchies can be built from morphological features of animals and fossils. A independent hierarchy can be build by looking at noncoding elements of the DNA such as endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). The simplest (and currently only proposed) solution is that both of these groupings describe the ancestry of life on earth from common ancestors.

Why are you an evolutionist?

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