Why are we baptised via water?

SPF · Aug 10, 2018

Tutorman said:
Water baptism is not just a sow about conversion i is essential for salvation

So I guess Jesus was pulling the leg of the thief on the cross, who was not baptized.

And baptism would without a doubt be a work, a requirement, something we must do, and that would nullify grace and say that something else was just as powerful for forgiving as Jesus on the cross. I personally wouldn't tell someone that Jesus' death on the cross actually wasn't enough to forgive their sins.

Albion · Aug 10, 2018

SPF said:
So I guess Jesus was pulling the leg of the thief on the cross, who was not baptized.

The case of the thief presents two problems.

1. It is not clear that he was saved, although we usually assume that he was. What Jesus said was that the two of them would be in paradise (not heaven).

2. The case of the thief presents a rare situation--the confession of a person to and in the presence of the Lord himself. Baptism, however, is the vehicle established for use by everyone else (such as ourselves).

And baptism would without a doubt be a work....

Baptism without a doubt is NOT a work as works are defined in religion.

You are merely allowing God (and the minister or the witnesses) to do something TO you. Its not as though you have earned merit by showing up for the ceremony or that doing so has helped anyone else a la the example of the Good Samaritan!

Tutorman · Aug 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
Is it the same as Anglicans here in New Zealand that you guys have infant baptism? Does that mean when you baptise infants, they are automatically saved?

Well I am not Anglican, I am Charismatic Episcopalian (a three stream church that is liturgical, evangelical, and charismatic) we do Baptize infants but that does not make them saved, Baptizing infants places a mark on them and later they must finish the path to initial conversion by repenting.

SPF said:
So I guess Jesus was pulling the leg of the thief on the cross, who was not baptized.

Absolutely not, the thief on the cross was baptized by desire. In other words he would have been baptized if he could have been.

SPF said:
And baptism would without a doubt be a work, a requirement, something we must do, and that would nullify grace and say that something else was just as powerful for forgiving as Jesus on the cross. I personally wouldn't tell someone that Jesus' death on the cross actually wasn't enough to forgive their sins.

Absolutely not, as Albion said God is doing something to you, baptism is not a work of man but a work of God

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 10, 2018

(1) Just to get this out of the way up front: the thief may have been immersed sometime prior in his life, before he was arrested.
(2) concerning immersion, in the NT, those who were not immersed thwarted God's Plan for their lives, and rejected Jesus as Messiah.
(3) those who were immersed, served Jesus as Lord, recognizing Him and trusting Him as Messiah.

Not David · Aug 10, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Not Correct , reubke this dude speaking lies least other people believe him...

You need to be born of water and Spirit .
You get born of water when you mom's waters break , then you need to be born again of Spirit .

When you get born again you are baptised BY FIRE and not by water.

Matthew 3:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

We are baptised in water as act of obedience , just like Jesus didn't have to be baptised himself , Christians don't need to be baptised but can . By doing so we tell the death when we go under water , burrial when we are under water and resurrection when we come out of water.

But it's just water .

There's only one baptism: the one that includes water and Holy Spirit.

Albion · Aug 10, 2018

David Cabrera said:
There's only one baptism: the one that includes water and Holy Spirit.

That's the sacrament of Baptism, all right!

Chinchilla · Aug 11, 2018

David Cabrera said:
There's only one baptism: the one that includes water and Holy Spirit.

John said I baptise you with water , but Jesus will baptise you with fire . Are you willfully ignorant of that ?

It's not like it's hidden somewhere , two baptisms in one vers.
Unless you think that water and fire are the same thing .

Albion · Aug 11, 2018

Chinchilla said:
John said I baptise you with water , but Jesus will baptise you with fire . Are you willfully ignorant of that ?

In the Great Commission, Jesus sent his Apostles out to convert and baptize the world.

Is there any record of any new believers having been set on fire as part of their conversion to Christianity? We know from the New Testament itself that people were baptized, using water.

And if you are inclined to reply that the baptism you are thinking of is done by the Holy Ghost himself without any sacramental ritual, bear in mind that Christ told his Apostles to do something with new believers, not assume that it would happen on its own or in its own good time.

Chinchilla · Aug 11, 2018

Albion said:
In the Great Commission, Jesus sent his Apostles out to convert and baptize the world.

Is there any record of any new believers having been set on fire as part of their conversion to Christianity? We know from the New Testament itself that people were baptized, using water.

And if you are inclined to reply that the baptism you are thinking of is done by the Holy Ghost himself without any sacramental ritual, bear in mind that Christ told his Apostles to do something with new believers, not assume that it would happen on its own or in its own good time.

Question is is fire and water the same thing . Can you put your church agenda back for a moment and answer it ? It's a yes or no question so I expect such in next answer .

Albion · Aug 11, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Question is is fire and water the same thing .

We are discussing the nature and administration of baptism. See the title of the thread???

Not David · Aug 11, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Question is is fire and water the same thing . Can you put your church agenda back for a moment and answer it ? It's a yes or no question so I expect such in next answer .

Agenda? This is something all Christians did for 1500 years.

Chinchilla · Aug 11, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Agenda? This is something all Christians did for 1500 years.

Jews were practicing the Law for over 1500 years and still missed who Messiah was , people make mistakes . I don't care if you were doing such for this long or that long I care what is truth .
So no simply yes/no answer from you , thanks for conversation anyways .

Chinchilla · Aug 11, 2018

Albion said:
We are discussing the nature and administration of baptism. See the title of the thread???

Yes and I said there are two , you quoted me and said I'm wrong so can you defend yourself or say sorry I was wrong and deal with your pride ? Can you finally answer if water baptism and fire baptism are the same or not and keep dodging the question ?

Albion · Aug 11, 2018

The answer is: Yes, baptism is administered with water.

Personally, I don't know how much simpler it can be stated.

Not David · Aug 11, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Jews were practicing the Law for over 1500 years and still missed who Messiah was , people make mistakes . I don't care if you were doing such for this long or that long I care what is truth .
So no simply yes/no answer from you , thanks for conversation anyways .

How do we know you are right?

Chinchilla · Aug 11, 2018

David Cabrera said:
How do we know you are right?

Ask a Jew if they think Jesus is Messiah so you can see if I'm right or wrong .

sdowney717 · Aug 15, 2018

Tutorman said:
Water baptism is not just a sow about conversion i is essential for salvation

So you claim water baptismal regeneration as true?
You do not need to be water baptised to be saved. You do need to believe in Christ, that is God.

Read all the verse about being saved, does Jesus mention water baptism in most of them to have eternal life?

Here is one, where is water baptism mentioned?
John 6:54
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

sdowney717 · Aug 15, 2018

If so then Christ should have said like this,
John 6:54
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood and is baptized has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
I don't see why you people don't write your own bibles. Well maybe you do! With all your commentaries.

Tutorman · Aug 15, 2018

sdowney717 said:
So you claim water baptismal regeneration as true?
You do not need to be water baptised to be saved. You do need to believe in Christ, that is God.

Read all the verse about being saved, does Jesus mention water baptism in most of them to have eternal life?

Here is one, where is water baptism mentioned?
John 6:54
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

So St. Peter lied? You see he did not and baptism is essential to salvation. Some like the thief on the cross did not get water baptized but was baptized by desire. Baptism is not of man but of God and essential.

Why are we baptised via water?

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