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HisBelovedMelody

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It was never something I did not know.

And my comment does not mean I have changed my viewpoint on the sinful nature of homosexuality - which still stands.

I believe the sinful nature of homosexuality is debatable at best.


OI!
 
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thenewageriseth

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YES, I DO! why is that so hard to believe. Ya know, the more I think about it, maybe we SHOULD put into effect everything the Bible says...hm...what a thought.

*sighs and shakes head* aw, come on >_< Some things of the Bible make no sense whatsoever. like loving your enemies-was that included in what you were suggesting about putting everything into effect from what the Bible says?
sadly, enough there would be more judging as a result of this, me thinks. >_<
 
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vossler

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It was never something I did not know.
Then why argue with those who choose to follow it?
And my comment does not mean I have changed my viewpoint on the sinful nature of homosexuality - which still stands.
You almost gave me hope.

I believe the sinful nature of homosexuality is debatable at best.
If so, unfortunately there are a lot of sins that are debatable or acceptable in your worldview you live under.
 
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127Rockledge

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Then why argue with those who choose to follow it?

I'm not sure what specific aspect of the posts you're refering to here. Is it consistancy or homosexuality in general?

You almost gave me hope.

I apologize?

If so, unfortunately there are a lot of sins that are debatable or acceptable in your worldview you live under.

Acceptable and debatable are two different things. But yes, many acts considered sins are in fact debatable, if they are not concisely detailed as being such (I do not mean to rehash the debate).

However I also hold the view than when one is unsure, one should err on the side of safety.

Meaning that to be a homosexual, would not be acceptable of myself.
 
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vossler

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I'm not sure what specific aspect of the posts you're refering to here. Is it consistancy or homosexuality in general?
Those that argue against homosexuality consistently will say they are against all all sin, not just homosexuality. It's only highlighted because so many wish to legitimize it, if other sins were given the same support many of those who are against homosexuality would be against those too. I know I would be. So the point is, you're arguing against those who stand against sin. Why?
Acceptable and debatable are two different things. But yes, many acts considered sins are in fact debatable, if they are not concisely detailed as being such (I do not mean to rehash the debate).
Yes, depending on your views many, many things that are considered sins today could be debateable, at least to those you don't seem to understand God and His will.
However I also hold the view than when one is unsure, one should err on the side of safety.
Yet you seem to be of the mind that homosexuality is unsure but then argue on the side of it being acceptable.
Meaning that to be a homosexual, would not be acceptable of myself.
Is this one of views where it's o.k. for others just not me, kind of like abortion?
 
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manchambo

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I expect that, like most other people, she is rather closed minded about the suggestion that it might by "OK" for one person to own another, no matter how nice or mean the owner is to the slave.

And if your argument has a shred of validity, why doesn't the argument that the Bible does not address homosexuality as it is practiced today have at least as much validity?
 
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manchambo

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I assume that this means you disapprove of such a view-point. But why can't someone believe an idea is somewhat morally ambiguous, reach their own tentative decision about what is right, but decide they are not sure enough to judge, or impose or deny legal rights or requirements on, others based on that tentative decision. I think that is a much more reasonable perspective than to assume you are always right about everything and ignore the obvious ambiguities, both in the Bible and in life, about what is right and wrong.
 
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127Rockledge

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I do not understand homosexuality to be a sin. I do not argue such sins that are concisely listed as being such. Is that the answer you're looking for?


I believe the sinful nature of homosexuality is debatable at best, it is not concisely defined as a sin, nor is there much evidence to support is in in God's will. It seems rather neglected (again not trying to rehash the debate).

I do not argue homosexuality being "acceptable" in the church - it is of one's particular doctrine and denomination to decide that.

However in regards to the secular world outside which we must, as Americans, be plugged into. We do not have the ability to say "No, as a Christian I will not obey this law - nor that one" - we are still held liable for our actions.

I'm not trying to argue the legitmization of homosexual marriage in the church - but I am arguing for equal right's as human beings. I see no reason why a same sex couple should not have the legal and financial privaledges a heterosexual couple has.

Is this one of views where it's o.k. for others just not me, kind of like abortion?

It's not a pick and choose issue if that's what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that I do not understand homosexuality to be a sin, nor do I understand it NOT to be a sin. In conference with the holy spirit I do not feel that I am a homosexual, so I should not pursue a homosexual relationship.

Much as a man who recieves the message that watching TV needs to stop from the holy spirit, well then if he is to watch TV, he has sinned.
 
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vossler

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I do not understand homosexuality to be a sin. I do not argue such sins that are concisely listed as being such. Is that the answer you're looking for?
Are you now saying it isn't a sin, because earlier you implied you weren't sure?

How do you feel about pedophilia?

What about pornography?

Abortion?

Each would probably be considered 'debateable,' at least for some.
I believe the sinful nature of homosexuality is debatable at best, it is not concisely defined as a sin, nor is there much evidence to support is in in God's will. It seems rather neglected (again not trying to rehash the debate).
So you say and believe, yet to me the evidence is tight. I don't know how many times something needs to be mentioned before it has credence with people.
I do not argue homosexuality being "acceptable" in the church - it is of one's particular doctrine and denomination to decide that.
So are we each to have our own doctrine? Isn't the church the body of Christ and not a specific denomination?
However in regards to the secular world outside which we must, as Americans, be plugged into. We do not have the ability to say "No, as a Christian I will not obey this law - nor that one" - we are still held liable for our actions.
We have the ability and responsibility to voice our concerns and make them known.
I'm not trying to argue the legitmization of homosexual marriage in the church - but I am arguing for equal right's as human beings.
I don't think anyone here doesn't want homosexuals to have equal rights. That's not the issue, the issue is legitimizing sin.
I see no reason why a same sex couple should not have the legal and financial privaledges a heterosexual couple has.
That's legitimizing sin!
I think you need to get off the fence because one minute you're arguing it isn't the next you're not so sure. It sure appears to be a pick and choose situation.

I didn't need a conference with the Holy Spirit to know I'm not a homosexual, I'm glad that wasn't necessary. Usually we talk of such things it is because we're wishing to legitimize something that we know in our hearts to be wrong.
Much as a man who recieves the message that watching TV needs to stop from the holy spirit, well then if he is to watch TV, he has sinned.
What if that man is so detached from God that the message is never received?
 
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127Rockledge

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Are you now saying it isn't a sin, because earlier you implied you weren't sure?
How do you feel about pedophilia?
What about pornography?
Abortion?

I believe that which has an inherrently negative effect on those who are unwilling is a sin.

Pornography I associate with lust.

So you say and believe, yet to me the evidence is tight.

You are very much entitled to your opinion. I do not want to rehash the debate unless something new is added.

I don't know how many times something needs to be mentioned before it has credence with people.

Their understanding and ability to understand is different than yours.

So are we each to have our own doctrine? Isn't the church the body of Christ and not a specific denomination?

My statement is in regards that say, the PCUSA will allow a homosexual to become a leader, yet baptists will not. They are different denominations and both see the bible through a slightly different colored microscope lense.

We have the ability and responsibility to voice our concerns and make them known.

Absolutely, but not to deny rights to those who have not committed a crime.

I don't think anyone here doesn't want homosexuals to have equal rights. That's not the issue, the issue is legitimizing sin.

(I commented on civil unions being of the state and not the church)

That's legitimizing sin!

Is the church our governing power in America?

Last I heard there was a seperation of church and state, so why should the state be concerned if homosexuality is a sin?

I think you need to get off the fence because one minute you're arguing it isn't the next you're not so sure. It sure appears to be a pick and choose situation.

It is not a pick and choose situation. I am not on the fence. I am merely saying I do not see enough concise evidence so sway my opinion either way on the matter of sin.

I didn't need a conference with the Holy Spirit to know I'm not a homosexual, I'm glad that wasn't necessary.

That's great, I am glad you have never had such a dilemna. Though I do not believe you understood what I was saying.


Usually we talk of such things it is because we're wishing to legitimize something that we know in our hearts to be wrong.

Must I only educate myself in areas which are evident in my life?

What if that man is so detached from God that the message is never received?

I pity such a man. However if one is in honest pursuit of God, he will.
 
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HisBelovedMelody

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That was very rude, Jesus loves all his people and shine the light for everyone.
tell that to Jesus. He is the one that said it originally..READ THE BIBLE. What is rude is you poking your nose in where it doesn't belong. I was NOT addressing you.
 
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manchambo

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rock, you are so wishy washy....hm...Jesus calls that lukewarm, and He will spew you out of His mouth.
An absolute misapplication of scripture. Jesus said that people who do not either love him or hate him are lukewarm.

That statement related in no way to one's recognition of moral ambiguities. The word for people who recognize those things is: "INTELLIGENT."

And I really think you have not basis to judge how much or how little anyone on here loves the lord.
 
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manchambo

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tell that to Jesus. He is the one that said it originally..READ THE BIBLE. What is rude is you poking your nose in where it doesn't belong. I was NOT addressing you.
And that's just funny. Do you not expect that the things you post on threads will be read and responded to by people?
 
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