Why are they gay?

Sam Gamgee said:

I've never heard of that term, but from your brief description, that certainly seems to apply to me.

Part of what forms my decisions is my life experiences. Another part is what I read, watch and learn (the Bible being one of many things that I've read). Another part is from what I've learned in my education.

And all of those things combine to form my opinions on various things in life...

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The bible directly contradicts what you believe. I too was a homosexual supporter but this was before I was saved so my beliefs were based on the worlds philosophies which again in the christain world view are nothing but a waste of time.

genez said:

So, you have no longer turned away. You are actively homosexual?

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Yup... quite active.

And I've never been closer to God

Sam Gamgee said:

Good question.

It depends on the situation. I will say that the Bible doesn't "win out" (for lack of a better term) in all situations.

In many cases, my scientific mind comes to more logical answers...

Additionally, being liberal-leaning, and living in New Hampshire (who's state motto is "live free or die"), I don't always fall in agreement with Biblical laws.

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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm curious how one can consider themselves a Christian but then limit our application of the known beliefs of said allegiance to what we're comfortable with.

Sam Gamgee said:

Yup... quite active.

And I've never been closer to God

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I'd like to see you explain that one to God! HE said it was an abomination...so SORRY, God does NOT contradict himself. He does NOT approve of this sin.

Sam Gamgee said:

Again, that is your opinion

I happen to believe that people are born gay, just as people are born straight.

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Some people are born naturally kind and gentle. Some are born wanting to pull wings off of birds. Are they both the way God wants them to be?

I knew of someone like that. As a liitle boy his parents sent him for therapy, because he loved being cruel to animals. God made him that way with approval?

For that reason, you make no sense in justifying yourself with your reasoning.

Why do you think the Bible must condemn homosexual activity? Because all men would not want to try it?

There is an inclination there in some to be vulnerable to demonic forces that will have an affinity to induce such behavior... Not everyone shares the same weaknessed. Demons test and try souls, too. They find those whom they can manipulate to do their will. Because these have a design they know how to work with.

If believers who have the Holy Spirit? Must resist such things? The unbeliever can not in his own power.

Demons assign certain humans to express homosexual desire because of some attitude of soul they detect that allows them to. Those they thought they could effect, but failed to. These types who are highly emotional and irrational, grow up with a deep hatred of 'f_gs.'

Homosexuals can be very macho (with lots of testosterone), and some can be very effeminate and soft. Its not a hormone issue.

It involves an area of pride that God has allowed to be humbled by this means of this humiliation. Homosexuality is God dealing with a soul that needs to stop feeling itself superior to others, in a manner that this humiliation would be obvious to most of us. But? This type of pride is almost invinsible in some. That is why I believe God allows for some to be born homosexual.


That is why we have Gay Pride Day.

In Christ, GeneZ

Sam Gamgee said:

Yup... quite active.

And I've never been closer to God

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Genesis 6:1-2


Apparently, God created angels with the ability to have sex. But, because of the rebellion of Satan, they were never brought to the place of receiving their female counterpart.

Adam, likewise, was not created with his woman. "Not good man be alone."

She came later on.

Angels were not created with a female counterpart. That was to come later on. It was never realized because many of the angels rebelled against God and refused to repent. God called off this area of blessing.

Later on. After all the fallen angels convinced themselves that they were totally self sufficient, and to be able to be happy without God? God slams them with the creation of beautiful women!

Man was created only a little lower than the angels. So, to beautiful women, angels could relate.

When these early men and women had glorious and passionate uninhibited sex?

These invisible ones would observe without inhibiting those involved in their exchanges of love making.

What did this do to the angels?

It was like a teenager reading Playboy magazine for the first time, and worse!

A few decided to rebel against God, and in their great lust, materialized into physical form and took any woman they so pleased (Genesis 6:1-2).

God judged these angels afterwards.

Demons in their fallen state sin all the time. And God leaves them be. But, this speaks of angels (sons of God) that sinned! Those who were supposed to remain righteous before God!

Some did sin. They materialized and took to themselves the women of Genesis 6.

Now? Where does that leave demons who are never given the authority by God to materialize in this world?

They can not take women as those angels did. What I believe happened. Is that certain demons studied women and begand to copy them. They worshipped the feminine form and expression. They adored women!

These, were the first drag queens. It also explains why pagan goddesses appeared, when God only had created angels in masculine form.

....Vines Expository Dictionary......​

1angelos ​

"a messenger" (from angello, "to deliver a message"), sent whether by God or by man or by Satan, "is also used of a guardian or representative in Re. 1:20, cp. Mt. 18:10; Ac. 12:15 (where it is better understood as = 'ghost'), superior to man, Heb. 2:7; Ps. . 8:5, belonging to Heaven, Mt. 24:36; Mr. 12:25, and to God, Lu. 12:8, and engaged in His service, Ps. . 103:20. "Angels" are spirits, Heb. 1:14, i.e., they have not material bodies as men have; they are either human in form, or can assume the human form when necessary, cp. Lu. 24:4, with Lu. 24:23, Ac. 10:3 with Ac. 10:30. "They are called 'holy' in Mr. 8:38, and 'elect,' 1Ti. 5:21, in contrast with some of their original number, Mt. 25:41, who 'sinned,' 2Pe. 2:4, 'left their proper habitation,' Jude. 1:6, oiketerion, a word which occurs again, in the NT, only in 2Co. 5:2. Angels are always spoken of in the masculine gender, the feminine form of the word does not occur."* [* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, p. 229.] Note: Isangelos, "equal to the angels," occurs in Lu. 20:36." ​

Angels only appear in masculine gender throughout the Bible. The female form was never created for them. That explains why certain angels rebelled in Genesis 6, and took to themselves passionately all the women they had. It also explains why mankind needed to be destroyed in the flood. Jesus Christ could not come from a mutant race of men! He had to be like Adam in his humanity.





The first drag queens were male demons. And, they soon learned the power they had over the other male demons who desired a female. Male with male. Dominant with submissive. And, they have been ever since trying to perfect their relationship so it could equal in happiness to the design God gave male and female.

They keep trying to perfect it. Its evolved over the years. One era had the butch and fem. Another, dominant and submissive. Today, its marriage. It keeps evolving and trying to copy and perfect for themselves what God created for a happiness between man and a woman. They refuse to admit that they can not produce for themselves a happiness equal to God's blessing. They are determined to show they can be happy without God. Their testing ground? Mankind.

And, that explains why the one to come (Antichrist) who is possessed by Satan, will be homosexual in expression.


Daniel 11:37 (New American Standard Bible)
"He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all."

Man and woman in a happy marriage, reflect the image of God.

Homosexuals in a pseudo expression of marriage, reflect the image of fallen angels.

That is why God sees it as an abomination.



In Christ, GeneZ

GeneZ...that was...odd.
tulc(at a loss for words...which happens very seldom)

NewGuy101 said:

So we should let people sin even if it's a direct transgression against God?

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If God lets people sin, I really do not see what we can do about it except make it neccessary for people to lie and feel perfectly justified in doing so.

JonathonD said:

If they are made with gay attractions, then thats the way God wanted them to be I guess. Unless somone wants to debate against me.
But I'd say #4.
Some don't want to be Gay but they just are.
And I want to get more repect for Gays, since I am a homophobic.

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Hmmmm... perfect example of how homophobia has nothing to do with disagreeing with their belief system, for here is someone who admits homomophobia but agrees with their most sacred belief. Real homophobia and not just the word that they use like the word "infidel" ususally has to do with the kind of experiences one has had, and is pretty involuntary.

NewGuy101 said:

I'm getting tired of of reapting myself...God didn't make them that way. If you think he did please provide scriptural support. thanks.

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I agree with you, but you might as well stop repeating yourself. In fact, let me ask you something. Did God make you the way you are?

Sam Gamgee said:

2) God will say that since I didn't repent for my sins, I will not get into heaven. If this is the case... If God wants no part of me because I am a gay man, then I want no part of God.

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Well that is certainly different from my response in such circumstances. If God wants no part of me because I am a sinner, I would not blame him at all, for I clearly know where the blame lies. I would continue to praise Him and repudiate sin and evil to my best of my ability no matter where I find myself. Since His will is absolutely righteous, how could but rejoice that it is done.

Sam Gamgee said:

That's for God to decide. (in response to JonathonD's question "Will gays goto Heaven?")

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Now that is something which Sam says that I can agree with absolutely.

genez said:

Genesis 6:1-2
Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them,
that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took to themselves (in deep passion) women for themselves, whomever they chose."
Apparently, God created angels with the ability to have sex. But, because of the rebellion of Satan, they were never brought to the place of receiving their female counterpart.

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Well since you brought it up, I deny that the "beney ha' elohim" (sons of god) in this passage is talking about angels, just as I deny that angels and humans can have offspring. In Hebrews 1:5 God denys that he ever called an angel his son, and this is not something that changed in the new testament, for in Deuternomy 14:1 and Deuteronomy 32:8 the term "beney ha' elohim" is clearly used to refer to the Israelites. The passages in Job and Psalms used to support this idea that the "beney ha' elohim" are angel, is not very clear for in these cases the term could refer to just about anything.

crazymichael said:

I am so tired of hearing this. I regret starting this thread. Surprise, there are about 5 more that sprung up that will discuss the same things again.

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Could you be more specific? What is it that you are so tired of hearing?

relspace said:

If God lets people sin, I really do not see what we can do about it except make it neccessary for people to lie and feel perfectly justified in doing so.

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You seem to forget that God developed laws with consequences to deter sin.

relspace said:

I agree with you, but you might as well stop repeating yourself. In fact, let me ask you something. Did God make you the way you are?

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In what aspect? In physical aspects maybe, character possibly, in sin...no way.

crazymichael said:

I am so tired of hearing this. I regret starting this thread. Surprise, there are about 5 more that sprung up that will discuss the same things again.

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I'm new to this board, so I was starting to wonder if this was just the hot topic all the time because of the debate going on in our culture. I have followed 2 threads, though i have mostly just posted on 1.

These threads start to get circular after awhile. After about 3 pages nothing new is said.

Rin4Christ said:

I'm new to this board, so I was starting to wonder if this was just the hot topic all the time because of the debate going on in our culture. I have followed 2 threads, though i have mostly just posted on 1.

These threads start to get circular after awhile. After about 3 pages nothing new is said.

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Nah it is the same ol same ol. The thing that bothers me is the self righteous indignation of some. They go completely Ape doodles when someone is Homosexual, but yet they might be divorced, thus living in sin. Or I take a peek at their picture and they look 100 pounds overweight, thus they sin daily, by indulging in gluttony. Or of course we all know know that the secret SINS exist. Wife abuse, cheating. and the list goes on. So maybe the ought to consider the bema in their own eyes, rather then the splinter in their brothers ans sisters eyes. But alas gay bashing is a sport for some.

I would like to see more support for people who are homosexual but fight to live a righteous life by not giving into the temptations of sex. Sometimes I think the way the church reacts to homosexuals does more harm than they could ever do to "society" by pushing for acceptance.

NewGuy101 said:

You seem to forget that God developed laws with consequences to deter sin.

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Really? Do you thinks so? Why should He do that?

It is interesting. You seem to suggest that sin would be sin whether God made laws or not.

NewGuy101 said:

In what aspect? In physical aspects maybe, character possibly, in sin...no way.

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A lot of maybes and possibilities. Hmmmm... How about when you do something good? strengths? weaknesses? Has God designed you? Can God predict everything you will do like a windup robot?

Rin4Christ said:

I'm new to this board, so I was starting to wonder if this was just the hot topic all the time because of the debate going on in our culture. I have followed 2 threads, though i have mostly just posted on 1.

These threads start to get circular after awhile. After about 3 pages nothing new is said.

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Quite often threads on this topic get terminated by the forum administrators because participants start breaking the rules by getting abusive.

The going in circles happens on most threads this long and it means there are people involved who feel so strongly about their point of view that they do not tire of repeating themselves. Even when they wander way off topic a new participant evetually comes along to start the same battle all over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymichael

I am so tired of hearing this. I regret starting this thread. Surprise, there are about 5 more that sprung up that will discuss the same things again.


yeah, but it's something that needs to be discussedd...

eastcoast_bsc said:

Nah it is the same ol same ol. The thing that bothers me is the self righteous indignation of some. They go completely Ape doodles when someone is Homosexual, but yet they might be divorced, thus living in sin. Or I take a peek at their picture and they look 100 pounds overweight, thus they sin daily, by indulging in gluttony. Or of course we all know know that the secret SINS exist. Wife abuse, cheating. and the list goes on. So maybe the ought to consider the bema in their own eyes, rather then the splinter in their brothers ans sisters eyes. But alas gay bashing is a sport for some.

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Interesting response. I would submit that this is such a hot topic because it is one of the few sins people are openly unrepentant about. I don't know too many adulterers, fornicators, wife abuse etc., who openly claim those sins.

relspace said:

Well since you brought it up, I deny that the "beney ha' elohim" (sons of god) in this passage is talking about angels, just as I deny that angels and humans can have offspring.

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OK? ... So, you deny it. That's all that matters?

Is there something about you we should know about?

In Hebrews 1:5 God denys that he ever called an angel his son,

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You confuse the issue of "Father like Son."

As in the Godhead... THE SON... All that is the Father's, is the Sons!

Angels are not that kind of son.

The first born son always received the inheritence from his father. He was the heir.
Jesus is that kind of Son to the Father! Uniquely begotten by God.

And, for the offspring of God? That he commonly called "sons of God." "Bene ha Elohim." 'Angels.'

Now if you say it could not be angels? Who were the sons of God in Genesis 6, if that were the case?

Believers were never called that title until the Church age, after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was given!

Were these to be seen as men in Genesis 6?

How could they be?

If even angels (who are higher than man) could not (according to you) be referred to as sons of God?

And, why the differentiation of terms in Genesis 6? Sons of God? And, "daughters of men?" Coincidence?

So these were men that were called sons of God in Genesis 6? Angels were not to be called sons of God?

Men were present at the creation of the earth???


You mean, men were present at the creation of this planet?

It says the sons of God were witnesses to the earth's creation, and shouted for JOY!



And, men who were to be called sons of God?

Were present with Satan when he presented himself before the LORD in Heaven?

For, it says, the sons of God were present when Satan spoke before the LORD in Heaven!


Satan said that he had just come from the earth.

Therefore, he was not speaking on the earth when he spoke those words to the LORD.


So?

It was men who gathered with Satan in a special meeting in Heaven? "Sons of God?"

and this is not something that changed in the new testament, for in Deuternomy 14:1 and Deuteronomy 32:8 the term "beney ha' elohim" is clearly used to refer to the Israelites. The passages in Job and Psalms used to support this idea that the "beney ha' elohim" are angel, is not very clear for in these cases the term could refer to just about anything.

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14:1? Sons of the LORD, does not say "Sons of God."

And? Your mentioning of Deut 32:8?

Where are sons of God mentioned?

Believers are never referred to as being sons of God until the Church age began...

Its our being baptized into union with Christ that makes us sons of God! We are co-heirs with Christ! We have inherited his Sonship!

Angels when they materialize can easily be acceptable to a woman as being seen as an attractive human being!

When materialized? Angels can appear to be human in every way. They can fool men into thinking they are men. For, man was created only a little lower than the angels.

Once we get over this silly fairy tale notion of angels being cute little red cheeked baby cherubs, with wings? Then we can begin to realize how easily angels can identify with men. How women could be willing to be sexual with them in Genesis 6.

relspace said:

How can that be when we are all Christians here? This is a Christian only forum. You are treading a dangerous line here and could be accused of breaking forum rules.

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Oh bite me, she is Christian. Saying someone isn't because they think differently is breaking the rules!

vossler said:

From the standpoint that sin is sin, yes!

Who said anything about love being a crime?

Going with your line of reasoning one could say I loved that child I had sex with and for you to state it is a sin to love makes you insensitive. I'm sure that's not what you are advocating.

So are you asking me to respect the sin? If that's what you're looking for, I'm sorry you won't find that. However I do have compassion for sinners who acknowledge their sins, that's what Jesus did. He didn't show compassion to sinners who were prideful.

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Ha, the typical silly defense of homophobes. Let's put murderers in here...and pedophilacs and say it is just as bad as homosexuality.....

I disagree with Sam Gamgee saying homosexuality is a sin. But he is right to say that there is a big difference between one sin and the other. My rapists told me also that they loved me, yet that was not love that was lying! You do not destroy a person's body or mind without their consent when you love them.

The Bible is an old and beautiful book that is filled with a lot of wisdom and true words. But it also has contents that isn't of this day and age.

Look it up. I was raped in the city and didn't scream. So I was unfaithful to my boyfriend/ now husband. You should stone me. Because that is what the Bible says. Oh, and stone a bunch of homosexuals, cause that is what the Bible says.....and why not start a war against none-believers. The Bible is filled with huge amounts of violence. And than came that man along who picked up a stone and said: "those who are without sin cast the first stone." He said that - loud and clear. And yet, it seems to be forgotten in this day and age.

genez said:

Is there something about you we should know about?

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What do you mean? Are you talking about my seminary education perhaps? Or are you trying to imply that I am not Christian? If so, you define it very narrowly. There is no mention of what we are talking about in the Nicean creed. If you are looking for hints of what my interpretation is, well I am a theistic evolutionist or evolutionary creationist or whatever you want to call it.

genez said:

Deut 14:1? Sons of the LORD, does not say "Sons of God."

And? Your mentioning of Deut 32:8?

According to the number of the sons of Israel." (nasb)​

Where are sons of God mentioned?

Believers are never referred to as being sons of God until the Church age began...

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I moved my response and the rest of this off topic discussion to a thread in the Exposition and Bible Study Section, which is linked here:

relspace said:

Your translations are irrelevant, because the original Hebrew in both passages of Deuteronomy is "beney ha' elohim" exactly the same as in Genesis 6. ...

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