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Oncedeceived

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According to extinction statistics, 99.9% of the mechanisms instilled by God were a failure.

I am not sure what statistics you are using. The highest extinction event was a loss of 52% of families, a 90 perhaps up to 95% species that were impacted.

And according to Christian mythos, 100% of them were unnecessary, as God allegedly designed the universe as a death-free paradise.

This is just a straw man.
Neither of these are ringing endorsements for God.

Really? Ever hear of fossil fuels? Man was God's plan. It would be completely necessary for the future of mankind. Seems like it is a whole symphony of ringing endorsement.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Theories change in light of new data. Evolution is not unique in this.

Yes, that is true. However, the new data was then explained by how evolution would have had to operate to accommodate the new data. For instance, Punctuated Equilibrium and horizontal transfer. Evolution was presupposed to be the mechanism for the data but some new theory within the theory had to be used to explain why ToE as first presented didn't fit.
 
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Kellyvee

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Really? Ever hear of fossil fuels? Man was God's plan. It would be completely necessary for the future of mankind. Seems like it is a whole symphony of ringing endorsement.
Man knew nothing of fossil fuels for how many thousands of years before they were used?
God never thought to mention it? and we're running out now so does that mean the end times are upon us?
What did man use to get the gas and oil out of the ground? was it science or God?
Please don't write that God gave us the science.
 
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lasthero

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There was no theory within the theory. We simply better understood how it worked - the overall framework remained the same.
 
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Davian

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Gravity is a force pulling together all matter. Gravity = force which pulls (effect) all matter. The effect is the result of the force upon matter. So the force is not the effect.
You are still not clear on this. And where is the gap that your god is to fit?
So you believe that a naturalistic origin of the universe is tentative?
And subject to falsification and correction with the introduction of more detailed information. Sure. Although, on that subject, we would be dealing with hypotheses.
Or for the elementary particles called gravitons.
"Elementary particles" have explanatory power, and scientifically agreed upon meanings. This is not the case for "gods" or "God".
Is there outside sources to confirm the miracles of those other religions?
Now you want qualified stories of miracles as evidence. You really want to go down that rabbit hole?
 
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Davian

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No, it is a claim that most Christians will agree. The validity of the claim is not what I was referring to. Validity aside, Christians claim a personal relationship with God.
Good. I thought you may have been alluding to the number of people making this claim. The numbers are irrelevant to my point.
Self delusion? Is there an objective manner in which you can show that you are not deluding yourself that God does not exist?
A dodge (you did not address the question), a straw man (I do not claim God does not exist), and an attempt to shift the burden of evidence (have we not had this conversation about you?), all in one sentence.

Again, is there one Christian that can show, in an objective manner, that they have a relationship with something outside of their own imagination?
 
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Davian

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How would the laws of logic arise in a material universe? What evidence do you provide to show that they are produced from known materials of the universe?
"Laws" are scientific generalizations based on factual observations (dictionary.com). They are created by humans.

Please define what you mean by "law" in this context.

If you mean something else, which I think you do, and I cannot provide an explanation, will that qualify as a "gap"?
To you nothing. To the Christian we know that He is in a place called Heaven. Where is that...I don't know.
A presupposition then. Do you scrutinize your own presuppositions, or just others'?
Again, not the subject, the person. Can you provide an example where a "materialist" - a scientist - claimed that evidence was not necessary in support of their scientific theory? A peer reviewed paper, published work, etc?

Missed in your response to my post was: could present your evidence in the form of a testable, falsifiable hypothesis?
 
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Davian

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I think I have. I have said that there is no evidence that shows that the forces of nature are produced by the material of the universe. I have said that logic is not of a material produced by the universe.
How is this not a god-of-the-gaps argument?

"God of the gaps is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence."

God of the gaps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We don't need to determine truth. We observe what works. Newton's law's have been shown to lack precision, but they can be relied upon repeatedly to place landers on the moons and planets of our solar system.

Why would it matter?
If it does not matter, why did you bring "God" (your particular god) in as an explanation for intelligence into the conversation? Just "throwing it against the wall"?

If you stand upon the notion that non-intelligent processes were the only processes available, how does intelligence arise from no intelligence?
Emergence.

"In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence is the way complex systems and patterns arise out of a multiplicity of relatively simple interactions. "

Emergence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Davian

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Oncedeceived

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God knows the end from the beginning. In the Christian worldview, and according to Scripture we know that God knows what we need even before we ask.

I do believe that we are living in the end times.

It is interesting that you feel that you must qualify your statement with first specifying that God had nothing to do with science. Science is the area of human endeavor that seeks to explain the universe in which we live. To do so, we must have the intelligence to do so. It is in keeping with the Christian worldview that for intelligence to be available, intelligence had to come from intelligence. It is consistent within our worldview.
 
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lasthero

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Where did God get his intelligence?
 
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Davian

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Kellyvee

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Science is the area of human endeavor that seeks to explain the universe in which we live. To do so, we must have the intelligence to do so.
So Christianity really loves science except for the bits that say things didn't happen as Genesis says they did.
Evolution is a no no but the good bits were sent to us by God but only in the last 250 or so years,
before that God left man to fend for himself and die young, usually in agony.
 
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Oncedeceived

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There was no theory within the theory. We simply better understood how it worked - the overall framework remained the same.


That is simply untrue. Without the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium ToE would have failed according to one of its own predictions.
 
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