Who Created Evil?

Michael.C.Hadley · Oct 15, 2004

Who created evil? Did God or Satan? Becuase satan had the choice to become evil so God might have created it but God can not sin, creating evil is a sin?
Please Biblical Support only THANKS!

BWV 1080 · Oct 15, 2004

Michael.C.Hadley said:
Who created evil? Did God or Satan? Becuase satan had the choice to become evil so God might have created it but God can not sin, creating evil is a sin?
Please Biblical Support only THANKS!

God created independant beings with free moral choice, not mindless robots. Hence he created the potential for those beings to choose to disobey him. Therefore God created the potential for evil - man and the fallen angels actualized that potential through their choices.

countrymousenc · Oct 15, 2004

Evil is not a created thing; it is a perversion of the gift of freedom. It is ungratefully putting self above God. Satan chose freely to turn his back on the purpose for which God created him, and no one else tempted him.

prodromos · Oct 16, 2004

Evil is the absence of good, just like darkness is the absence of light.

alaskamolly · Oct 16, 2004

There is a verse in Isaiah (if it wasn't so late, I'd find it for you) that says God created evil.

The actual Hebrew word is more like, "calamity," (ie, destruction, tidal wave, hurricane, 'bad-thing-about-to-happen', etc.) but at the same time, it is interesting because it contradicts that idea that "nothing bad comes from the hand of God"... He says they do Himself (and the Scripture is certainly filled with such examples, from the Flood of Noah to the plagues in Revelation!)...

Sin/evil was found in the heart of Lucifer...

I don't think we can say it was 'created' there, because at one point it was not there, and then at another point, it was found 'growing' there, if you will. It is the decision NOT to choose God.

Great question, by the way...one I have found interesting for quite some time! Kind of along the same lines as "Can God Lie?" Well, some parts of Scripture say no, yet other parts show Him clearly decieving (and He says so Himself!), so I guess it just depends on how you want to define "lie!"

Same with this question...

How do you want to define "evil," because God says Himself that He creates calamity/terrible-events and causes them to take place...?
Now, I think that's MUCH different from the "evil" found in the heart of Satan, however (which He created Hell for, the evil is so horrible, yet I don't recall Him saying anything about throwing 'calamatous events' in hell, do you?)...so I guess it just depends on how we define our words!

Warm Regards,
Molly

Patristic · Oct 16, 2004

No Hyper-Calvinists around....? That's too bad, I guess it's time once again for me to play Devil's advocate.

"I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe." Isaiah 45:7

"Who commands, so that it comes to pass, except the Lord ordains it; Except it proceeds from the mouth of the Most High, whether the thing be good or bad." Lamentations 3:37-38

jbarcher · Oct 16, 2004

prodromos said:
Evil is the absence of good, just like darkness is the absence of light.

I agree with this as well.

The question implies that there's some animal of sorts running around that we refer to as evil.

Goodness and evil do not have an ontological status (i.e. they are not tangible; they are attributes, so to speak).

Palatka44 · Oct 16, 2004

Patristic said:
No Hyper-Calvinists around....? That's too bad, I guess it's time once again for me to play Devil's advocate.

"I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe." Isaiah 45:7

"Who commands, so that it comes to pass, except the Lord ordains it; Except it proceeds from the mouth of the Most High, whether the thing be good or bad." Lamentations 3:37-38

I think that this is God's way of stating that He is responsible for all that is in the world, good or bad. That is why He sent his Son to die so that all who would call upon His name shall be saved.

Stinker · Oct 16, 2004

The question implies that there's some animal of sorts running around that we refer to as evil.

"Be sober, be viligant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1Pet.5:8)

If Satan did not exist, evil would not exist. Satan does exist, so evil that resides within individuals, and evil that is expressed by actions, exists.

Crazy Liz · Oct 16, 2004

Stinker said:
If Satan did not exist, evil would not exist.

I'd like to understand where this idea comes from.

jbarcher · Oct 16, 2004

Stinker said:
The question implies that there's some animal of sorts running around that we refer to as evil.

"Be sober, be viligant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1Pet.5:8)

If Satan did not exist, evil would not exist. Satan does exist, so evil that resides within individuals, and evil that is expressed by actions, exists.

I think you missed the overall point of my post. Evil has no ontological status--you don't see evil dangling off a lamp, or hear on the news that evil was run over by a car because it tried to cross the highway. It is a quality/attribute/property.

Cray · Oct 16, 2004

maybe the was always evil ?

jbarcher · Oct 17, 2004

If you're suggesting a dualistic kind of model...

That verse in Isaiah about creating light and forming darkness, I think could have been written against Zoro-y dualism.

cygnusx1 · Oct 17, 2004

prodromos said:
Evil is the absence of good, just like darkness is the absence of light.

yes that is how augustine viewed it and i don't think anyone has surpassed augustine on this difficult topic....

Stinker · Oct 17, 2004

Crazy Liz said:
I'd like to understand where this idea comes from.

"Now is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (Jn.12:31)

"Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (Jn.14:30)

"Of judgement, because the prince of this world is judged." (Jn.16:11)

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Cor.4:4)

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" (Eph.2:2)

"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." (1 Jn.4:4)

jbarcher · Oct 17, 2004

The best you can get from that is that Satan does evil acts. There is nothing there that shows that evil originated from Satan, or that Satan is evil and evil is Satan.

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