Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

Cliff2 · Dec 18, 2005

strikerchris0411 said:
I am surprised this has over 1000 posts. It saturday isn't it. I think it was supposed to be Sunday though.

The Sabbath is Saturday and was NEVER meant to be Sunday.

That is the issue here, some think it is Sunday when no Biblical support for a Sunday Sabbath can be found in the Bible.

If it was so easy why don't these people who think Sunday is the Sabbath just come up with a text to say it is so and that would be the end of the story.

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Dec 18, 2005

woobadooba said:
But how can this be so when Jesus is the one who created the Sabbath?
Jn. 1:1-3 Certainly the Sabbath belongs to Jesus Christ.

John 1 has noting to do with the Sabbath. Here's Jon 1:1-5
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Yet, it was made for the purpose of giving it to man. Mk. 2:27

Here is the context of Mark 2:23-28
23And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

So, you see, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath as well.

So why look at it as though it were a curse?

Curse??? Where do you get that?
Sunday now belongs to the Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is the Light of the World.

Cliff2 · Dec 18, 2005

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
John 1 has noting to do with the Sabbath. Here's Jon 1:1-5
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Here is the context of Mark 2:23-28
23And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

So, you see, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath as well.

Curse??? Where do you get that?
Sunday now belongs to the Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is the Light of the World.

None of what you say supports Sunday as the sabbath.

Show me from the Bible where it says that that first day of the week is the Sabbath?

Every day belongs to Jesus because Jesus is the Creator John 1:1-3 and there are other texts in the New Testament to support that as well.

But that does not make Sunday as holy.

strikerchris0411 · Dec 18, 2005

Cliff2 said:
The Sabbath is Saturday and was NEVER meant to be Sunday.

Depends noone knows whether he started on Saturday or Sunday

That is the issue here, some think it is Sunday when no Biblical support for a Sunday Sabbath can be found in the Bible.

Click to expand...

None for Saturday either

If it was so easy why don't these people who think Sunday is the Sabbath just come up with a text to say it is so and that would be the end of the story.

Click to expand...

Same with Saturday

Chris

Click to expand...

oldsage · Dec 18, 2005

Normann said:
Your quote is not found in the Bible.

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

So, did you make that up yourself?

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

ASV Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
BBE Hebrews 4:9 So that there is still a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.
DBY Hebrews 4:9 There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.
ESV Hebrews 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
MRD Hebrews 4:9 Therefore it is established, that the people of God are to have a sabbath.
NAB Hebrews 4:9 Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God.
NIV Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
NJB Hebrews 4:9 There must still be, therefore, a seventh-day rest reserved for God's people,
NRS Hebrews 4:9 So then, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God;
YLT Hebrews 4:9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,

I think he may have a point

rstrats · Dec 18, 2005

Normann,

re: "Your quote is not found in the Bible"

Au contraire - It is a direct word for word quote from the "Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text"

Also, I would like you to explain why you think that your comments in your posts #341 and #349 prove that the weekly seven day cycle has been interrupted.

woobadooba · Dec 18, 2005

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
John 1 has noting to do with the Sabbath. Here's Jon 1:1-5
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Do you not agree that the Sabbath was made for man Mk. 2:27?

So who made it then?

Jesus?

Of course, because Jn. 1:3 says "ALL THINGS were made by Him..."

So how then does Jn. 1:3 have NOTHING to do with the creation of the Sabbath day?

So, you see, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath as well.

Of course He is. I never denied this.

Sunday now belongs to the Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is the Light of the World.

Says who, you or God?

Cliff2 · Dec 18, 2005

strikerchris0411 said:
Cliff2 said:

The Sabbath is Saturday and was NEVER meant to be Sunday.

Depends noone knows whether he started on Saturday or Sunday

None for Saturday either

Same with Saturday

Chris

Click to expand...

These are Sabbath texts in the New Testament

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no&startnumber=76

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no&startnumber=76&startnumber=101

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no&startnumber=76&startnumber=101

If my maths is correct that is 55 texts from the New Testament and not one of them says that the Sabbath has been changed.

The next link will take you to every text in the Bible that has the words

"first day of the week"

in them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=first+day+of+the+week&x=13&y=10

Not one of them says that the first day of the week is the Sabbath.

Using the Bible and the Bible only there is no support for a change from the 7th day Sabbath to the first day of the week.

Click to expand...

Cliff2 · Dec 19, 2005

Cliff2 said:
strikerchris0411 said:

Cliff2 said:

The Sabbath is Saturday and was NEVER meant to be Sunday.

These are Sabbath texts in the New Testament

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no&startnumber=76

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no&startnumber=76&startnumber=101

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no&startnumber=76&startnumber=101

If my maths is correct that is 55 texts from the New Testament and not one of them says that the Sabbath has been changed.

The next link will take you to every text in the Bible that has the words

"first day of the week"

in them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=first+day+of+the+week&x=13&y=10

Not one of them says that the first day of the week is the Sabbath.

Using the Bible and the Bible only there is no support for a change from the 7th day Sabbath to the first day of the week.

Click to expand...

Just wondering if the missing text has

been found yet.

Click to expand...

Normann · Dec 19, 2005

There are those in this world that make a religion out of man-made ideas. This thread is an example of such false teaching. Especially the SDA which seem to think God looked at the Georgian Calendar to know which day He should rest on.

The fact is when a false teaching is presented with truth and scripture they tend to ignore it or twist the meanings. In this thread I have seen some of the silliest answers given to try to support a doctrine that is false.

Seems clear to me that the SDA preaches a religion of "day-worship" and that's all they know of. The mis-quoting of the scriptures, the quotations of dead man-made saints, and the beliefs of an earthly organization started by a false prophet. Then the denial of the history that proves that founder and the false-hood.

Some minds in this world are set like concrete and I know I cannot change the hardened soldiers of them. But I will continue to post in the hopes of showing their fallacies to the innocent hearts that happen to read this thread.

Galatians 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

rstrats · Dec 19, 2005

Normann,

re: "On October 5,1582 it suddenly became October 15, 1582; we lost ten days and the weekly sabbath is no longer the same seventh day!"

You still havent explained how that calendar change affected the continuity of the seven day cycle.

The "Catholic Encyclopedia", Vol. 9 p. 251, under article Lilius, in explaining the change, says: "Thus, every imaginable proposition was made, only one idea was never mentioned, viz., the abandonment of the seven-day week."

Also, the "Catholic Encyclopedia", Vol. 3, p. 740, article Chronology says: "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted. Thus when Gregory XIII reformed the calendar in 1582, Thursday, 4 October was followed by Friday, 15 October."

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

oldsage · Dec 19, 2005

Normann said:
There are those in this world that make a religion out of man-made ideas. This thread is an example of such false teaching. Especially the SDA which seem to think God looked at the Georgian Calendar to know which day He should rest on.

No, everyone been saying that the seven day weekly cycle is independent of the calendar, you are the one that keeps harping it.

Normann said:
The fact is when a false teaching is presented with truth and scripture they tend to ignore it or twist the meanings. In this thread I have seen some of the silliest answers given to try to support a doctrine that is false.

Normann, even the opponents to keeping the Sabbath today acknowledge that the Sabbath falls on our saturday. You seem to be alone in your belief.

Normann said:
Seems clear to me that the SDA preaches a religion of "day-worship" and that's all they know of. The mis-quoting of the scriptures, the quotations of dead man-made saints, and the beliefs of an earthly organization started by a false prophet. Then the denial of the history that proves that founder and the false-hood.

Well, you Oneness Apostolics deny your beginnings in the early 1900's and ya'll come up with some weird doctrines like jibjabbering and denying the Trinity. But no one is pointing that out here are they?

Normann said:
Some minds in this world are set like concrete and I know I cannot change the hardened soldiers of them. But I will continue to post in the hopes of showing their fallacies to the innocent hearts that happen to read this thread.

you are not showing any fallacies, you can't answer the questions posed to you, your position is the one that is weak, everyone else makes a better case. You have been shown to be in error several times and have not acknowledged the correction, which tells me you are not being very honest in your bashing. From what I see you have several times misrepresented the sda in their history and beliefs. I don't think you have much credibility left if you are trying to prove them wrong by lying about their doctrines and history.

How about having a dialogue Normann, that is what this forum is for.

Chris

woobadooba · Dec 19, 2005

Normann said:
There are those in this world that make a religion out of man-made ideas. This thread is an example of such false teaching. Especially the SDA which seem to think God looked at the Georgian Calendar to know which day He should rest on.

How many times do people have to tell you that the calendar doesn't dictate the functionality of the weekly cycle? It wouldn't matter if the calendar was changed every week, the cycle would still be the same. The Sabbath would still fall on the 7th day. So you have no argument here.

And I really don't understand why you have a beef with SDAs; but to be quite frank with you, from what I can see in your posts, your attitude is unacceptable for a Christian. All I see is hatred, not love!

The fact is when a false teaching is presented with truth and scripture they tend to ignore it or twist the meanings. In this thread I have seen some of the silliest answers given to try to support a doctrine that is false.

But it isn't false! It is right in the Bible. What isn't in the Bible however, is the doctrine that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday, and that Sunday is the Lord's day. This is an assumption, not a Biblical fact!

Seems clear to me that the SDA preaches a religion of "day-worship" and that's all they know of. The mis-quoting of the scriptures, the quotations of dead man-made saints, and the beliefs of an earthly organization started by a false prophet. Then the denial of the history that proves that founder and the false-hood.

Seems to me that you are telling lies. You haven't backed one of these accusations up in a sensible manner throughout this entire thread. Instead, you have given us information that isn't even historically accurate, to support these false accusations.

Some minds in this world are set like concrete and I know I cannot change the hardened soldiers of them. But I will continue to post in the hopes of showing their fallacies to the innocent hearts that happen to read this thread.

Actually, you are doing more harm than you are doing good because you are making yourself look foolish by using such unsound reasoning, non sequitur arguments like the changed calendar, taking things out of context, demonstrating that you do not know how to exegete a passage from the Bible aright, and disclosing to anyone who has read, or will read your posts that you have no love at all for your SDA brethren, but blatant hatred instead!

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Yeah, why don't you start doing this by apologising to your SDA brethren for bearing false witness against us!

Normann · Dec 19, 2005

The word Saturday is not in the Bible, nor is the command to keep a sabbath in the New Testament.

Normann · Dec 19, 2005

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Cliff2 · Dec 19, 2005

Normann said:
The word Saturday is not in the Bible, nor is the command to keep a sabbath in the New Testament.

The word Sunday is not in the Bible.

Does that mean it is not the first day of the week?

Not at all.

The word Sabbath is in the Bible and we all know that the Sabbath that Jesus kept was the 7th day of the week.

No one even disputes that fact.

rstrats · Dec 19, 2005

Normann,

You have a question directed to you in post #371.

oldsage · Dec 19, 2005

rstrats said:
Normann,

You have a question directed to you in post #371.

this is the second time I tried to have a dialogue with Normann. he is just repeating the things someone told him and he has no arguments for his assertions. He isn't sure of history of the Sabbath nor the SDA church which he keeps bringing up, not recognizing the fact there are many more sabbatarians out there than just the SDA. He probably doesn't know anything about Seventh-Day Baptist which was around 200 years before any SDA existed. He doesn't understand how the calendar fits in all this. I believe he read something on some website and that is what he clinged too. My advice to all is to just let him be, he doesn't care what you post, he is just going to make assertions and have no evidence to back them up. He has already stated his purpose is basically to say things against the sda church.

Chris

Cliff2 · Dec 19, 2005

oldsage said:
this is the second time I tried to have a dialogue with Normann. he is just repeating the things someone told him and he has no arguments for his assertions. He isn't sure of history of the Sabbath nor the SDA church which he keeps bringing up, not recognizing the fact there are many more sabbatarians out there than just the SDA. He probably doesn't know anything about Seventh-Day Baptist which was around 200 years before any SDA existed. He doesn't understand how the calendar fits in all this. I believe he read something on some website and that is what he clinged too. My advice to all is to just let him be, he doesn't care what you post, he is just going to make assertions and have no evidence to back them up. He has already stated his purpose is basically to say things against the sda church.

Chris

Seems to me that you may be right here although I was hoping to show him that what I have been saying is what the Bible is also saying.

Normann · Dec 19, 2005

Cliff2 said:
strikerchris0411 said:

Cliff2 said:

The Sabbath is Saturday and was NEVER meant to be Sunday.
........... .............
If my maths is correct that is 55 texts from the New Testament and not one of them says that the Sabbath has been changed.
.................
Using the Bible and the Bible only there is no support for a change from the 7th day Sabbath to the first day of the week.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you said that; now using the Bible and the Bible only there is no support for the Sabbath being on Saturday.

Of the same 55 texts in the N. T. there is not one that says "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY"

Smiles,

Normann

Click to expand...

Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

Well-Known Member

Contributor

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Veteran

Senior Member

Legend

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Veteran

Legend

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency