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Maybe she doesn't hear therefore doesn't pray for you, my friend hears therefore can pray.
Christ's mediatorship is uneffected by any of us praying to Him for one another.
So why is it usurped when Mary prays for us?
We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses as St. Paul writes in his Epistle to the Hebrews. Those in heaven are aware of what is going on. Hence Why st. paul talks about running the race. and completing the race. There is a sense that those in heaven cheering Christians on in doing christ's work. St. paul would not use this imagery deliberately if those in heaven do not know anything. It would also be equally blasphemous for the sould underneath the altar in heaven to cry out to God asking him to excersize his justice against thpse who killed them. The Souls in revelation would be sinfully presuming something Christ has or has not done because they would be ignorant. We know that is not the case because such souls are in heaven and those souls can not sin in heaven.Maybe she doesn't hear therefore doesn't pray for you, my friend hears therefore can pray.
You are making the faulty presumption that hearing the prayers of christians=Omniscience.Now if you desire to suggest she's a God then she'd likely be able to be omniscient but from scripture that'd be unlikely.
Maybe she doesn't hear therefore doesn't pray for you, my friend hears therefore can pray.
Now if you desire to suggest she's a God then she'd likely be able to be omniscient but from scripture that'd be unlikely.
Oh please what makes you think they are up there cheering us on? it says a great cloud of witnesses--witnesses to what?--not witnesses of you, but witnesses to the validity of a life of faith as described in chapter 11, context friend... They are living in eternity as witnesses to the validity and benefit of a life of faith.We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses as St. Paul writes in his Epistle to the Hebrews. Those in heaven are aware of what is going on. Hence Why st. paul talks about running the race. and completing the race. There is a sense that those in heaven cheering Christians on in doing christ's work. St. paul would not use this imagery deliberately if those in heaven do not know anything. It would also be equally blasphemous for the sould underneath the altar in heaven to cry out to God asking him to excersize his justice against thpse who killed them. The Souls in revelation would be sinfully presuming something Christ has or has not done because they would be ignorant. We know that is not the case because such souls are in heaven and those souls can not sin in heaven.
What kind of thoughts Angel?Luke 2
35 And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed
The problem is that the greek word martyr has the context of "spectator of anything" acording to Thayer's "greek-english Lexicon of the New Testament. for Thayer states:Oh please what makes you think they are up there cheering us on? it says a great cloud of witnesses--witnesses to what?--not witnesses of you, but witnesses to the validity of a life of faith as described in chapter 11, context friend...
1) Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Joseph H. Thayer, Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 4th ed., 1977; orig. 1901, p. 392)One who is a spectator of anything, e.g. of a contest, Heb 12:1.
'Witnesses' does not mean spectators, but those who have borne witness to the truth, as those enumerated in chapter 11. Yet the idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principal idea. The writer's picture is that of an arena in which the Christians whom he addresses are contending in a race, while the vast host of the heroes of faith who, after having borne witness to the truth, have entered into their heavenly rest, watches the contest from the encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with lively interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid.
The word as shown can taken to mean both implicit and explicit understanding that these witnesses in hebrews 1 are factual witnesses who are seeing us.They are living in eternity as witnesses to the validity and benefit of a life of faith.
PRAYER OF POPE PIUS XII This prayer, dedicated to Mary Immaculate, was composed by the Pope for the Marian Year (December 8, 1953-December 8, 1954), which was proclaimed to mark the centenary of the definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.
Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, 0 Immacuate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.
O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! 0 Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!
O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.
Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.
Prayer Source: Prayer Book, The by Reverend John P. O'Connell, M.A., S.T.D. and Jex Martin, M.A., The Catholic Press, Inc., Chicago, Illinois, 1954
Hey bro, take a peek at the last paragraph the bolded areas, you got no problems with Her altars and such?Could you elaborate?
I don't see anything deistic or seemingly desitic there.
Peace
Sound like the worship given to Jesus in Revelation..To God be the Glory honor and Power but here we see this about Mary? I don't think so.You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people!
That does seem a little odd. Does anyone know what he means by her alter?
Your assumption is that once in heaven we are limited both physically and spiritually to that as we are now?Maybe she doesn't hear therefore doesn't pray for you, my friend hears therefore can pray.
Now if you desire to suggest she's a God then she'd likely be able to be omniscient but from scripture that'd be unlikely.
Your assumption is that once in heaven we are limited both physically and spiritually to that as we are now?
Yet scripture is clear that she suffers with us, rejoices with us and is concerned for us, is it not? Don't all the saints?
Well, I guess it depends on what one believes about the body of Christ, and being a member.To be flatly honest, no, scripture is not at all clear concerning your assertions. Please provide the scriptural references of these assertions.
Have you not read that there is the earthly body and the glorified body? Have you also not read that those who are no longer with us on earth are asleep? Or at rest.. They have entered their eternal home to be with the Lord. They are now present with the Lord not working but at rest.. How can a sleeping member help us? Have you ever had a limb go to sleep and then try to use it? It does not work.Well, I guess it depends on what one believes about the body of Christ, and being a member.
In multiple places in scripture, we are told believers belong to 'one body'. We are all members of this 'one body'. (Romans 12, 1Corinthians 10, 1Corinthians 12, Ephesians 3-5, Colossians 3). In fact, a lot of Scripture is spent drilling into our heads this understanding.
We are also told in scripture that nothing, including death can separate us from the love of Christ (Romans 8:38-39).
So if one does not believe that the saints in heaven are concerned about our welfare and suffer and rejoice with us, what does one believe about the 'one body'?
Seems to me there are only two conclusions. First, there is not one body, but two -- one for those living on earth and one for those living in heaven. Two completely separate bodies, which is completely contradictory to scripture -- there is only one body.
The second conclusion would be that we are separated from this one body at death. Again, completely contradictory to scripture.
If one believes there is one body, and that we are not separated from this body at death (as Catholics do) then scripture is clear that members within the body care for each other and rejoice and suffer together. In fact, Paul says that "The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"
However, this is exactly what people do when they tell those in heaven -- "we don't need you". We have Jesus, and that's all we need.
So the question is -- do you believe there is one body, and that death does not separate us from it? If so, then scripture says the saints in heaven indeed care for us. If not, please provide the scripture that supports your view that there are two bodies, or that we are no longer members of the one body at death.
Yes, I've read and understand that there's an earthly body and a glorified body. It's a different state of the same one body, not two separate bodies. I've read nothing that says the 'one' body of Christ is really separated into an earthy body and a glorified body existing at the same time.Have you not read that there is the earthly body and the glorified body? Have you also not read that those who are no longer with us on earth are asleep? Or at rest.. They have entered their eternal home to be with the Lord. They are now present with the Lord not working but at rest.. How can a sleeping member help us? Have you ever had a limb go to sleep and then try to use it? It does not work.
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