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Where Mary's seemingly deistic identity stems from...

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simonthezealot

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
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PRAYER OF POPE PIUS XII This prayer, dedicated to Mary Immaculate, was composed by the Pope for the Marian Year (December 8, 1953-December 8, 1954), which was proclaimed to mark the centenary of the definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, 0 Immacuate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.
O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! 0 Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!
O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.
Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.
Prayer Source: Prayer Book, The by Reverend John P. O'Connell, M.A., S.T.D. and Jex Martin, M.A., The Catholic Press, Inc., Chicago, Illinois, 1954

 

WarriorAngel

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Have you ever went to your mother instead of your dad because you feared your dad?
BE HONEST!
Perhaps you wanted your mother to soften the blow...
BY being the one who would go to your dad with the bad news??

For the most part, most ppl turn to the 'more nurturing' parent to get their help to go to the other parent to 'present the case' so the news isnt so bad. [I am speaking in terms we understand...and Mary asks Our Lord, and He responds]

Put it this way.........
Wedding of Cana.
Did Mary ask? No.
She knew Jesus would honor her request and He did.
Ya think it was an accident [Jesus all knowing] that He did this first miracle for His Mother?


Moms have that way.
As Mary is our Mother [we are all adopted by Jesus] she has a way with asking things of God we just dont.

BTW, lovely writing.
Its wonderful and poetic prose when feeling the love and mercy of asking Mom to go to Her Son.
 
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WarriorAngel

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She is God's glory.
Not ours.

She shall be called Blessed in every generation.
He exalts the lowly.
She was the lowly handmaid of the Lord.

So, um yea...
She is His glory.
For she obeyed.
And thus we are saved.
 
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MamaZ

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Now why would I be afraid of my Loving Father? He loved me so much that He sent His only begotten son to die so my sins are forgiven and I can come boldy to the throne of Him. We have no heavenly mother.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Now why would I be afraid of my Loving Father? He loved me so much that He sent His only begotten son to die so my sins are forgiven and I can come boldy to the throne of Him. We have no heavenly mother.

You love your own father..
I assume. That doesnt mean asking your mom to talk to him is bad. Its just another way to get to your own father.

Its not a matter of only the Father, for all go thru Jesus to get to the Father.

And to get to Jesus, He is inclined to listen to His Mother.
He did on earth and He does in Heaven.
His relationship with her is unchanged.

I can tell you this, my prayers are answered thru the rosary.
Petitioning His Mother, our Mother, because all are adopted into Christ, means we have another praying for us who we know always had a close [the closest] relationship to Christ.

Its a pity more folks dont really understand our love for Our Holy Mother in Heaven.
She is a friend, a loved one and a Saint who loves us..and only wishes to please her Holiest of Holy Son by bringing us closer to Him.

Her desire is that we come to Jesus.
WHY?
Because when we are faithless, she is pierced in the heart because her love for Her Son is the most powerful love for Jesus that there is.
[foretold by Simeon in the Temple]
She wants us to draw closer to trusting her so we can be receptive to her requests to follow Her Son.

St Luke 2
33 And his father and mother were wondering at those things which were spoken concerning him. 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; 35 And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed.

Why is her soul pierced?
Because the thoughts of hearts of many would be revealed.
But why would that bother her?
Because of her magnitude of love for Her Son, Our Lord.
When would this occur?
In Heaven.

Unless you think she could read hearts on earth...
But i believe this was a prophecy of her role to come for all ages.
Which all ages shall call her blessed.

Her role is never ending...thus the prophecies.




 
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simonthezealot

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YOUR throne
YOUR altars
And it does not say Gods glory it says you and OUR...

Eeegads anyone who does NOT think these things can cause non-theologian catholics and other seekers to believe Mary is of a deistic nature you truly must be either blinded or infinitely confused.
 
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MamaZ

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Its a pity more folks dont really understand our love for Our Holy Mother in Heaven.
She is a friend, a loved one and a Saint who loves us..and only wishes to please her Holiest of Holy Son by bringing us closer to Him.
As Christians we don't have Holy mother in Heaven. There is no marriage..We have the Godhead in Heaven.. Father Son and Holy Spirit...
You love your own father..
I assume. That doesnt mean asking your mom to talk to him is bad. Its just another way to get to your own father.
Never knew my earthly dad.
And to get to Jesus, He is inclined to listen to His Mother.
He did on earth and He does in Heaven.

His relationship with her is unchanged
Once again.. No marriage in heaven.. Therfore with no marriage there is no mommy and daddy role..
I can tell you this, my prayers are answered thru the rosary.
Petitioning His Mother, our Mother, because all are adopted into Christ, means we have another praying for us who we know always had a close [the closest] relationship to Christ.
The one who had the most intimate realtionship with Jesus was God the Father and the HOly Spirit.. John and Him were also pretty tight..
Her desire is that we come to Jesus.
Her desire was that all men might believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.. Just as it is in all of Gods Children..
Mary's soul was peirced because she saw Jesus die on the behalf of all man kind.. Kind of piercing wouldn't you say? I know my soul would be pierced. She knew who He was.. She knew why He came.. But in all of this yes she loved Him..
 
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WarriorAngel

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She is our hope...was our hope and still remains our hope...
OF bridging the gap to Jesus Her Son, whom she requests on our behalf for favors.

FWIW, 'your altars' refers to the Heavenly altars [of God] and not Mary...
But she has a throne...and is Queen.

Remember when the mother requested Jesus put her sons at His right hand..[and left]
And He said 'the spot was already filled' so to speak...?

He was referring to Mary His Mother, Queen, but He didnt let anyone know...
for He didnt let anyone know because He didnt want to scandalise His Mother.
Which would have caused ppl to want to follow her, stalk her, and touch her. [As they did Him]
His love fer Her kept Her earthly life completely in descretion...for her sake. He always protected His Mother.

Where does the Queen sit?
At the Kings right hand.

Being Jesus is the right hand of the Father, and we know there is a right hand of Jesus...who fills it?

Matthew 20
21 Who said to her: What wilt thou? She saith to him: Say that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left, in thy kingdom. 22 And Jesus answering, said: You know not what you ask. Can you drink the chalice that I shall drink? They say to him: We can. 23 He saith to them: My chalice indeed you shall drink; but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father. 24 And the ten hearing it, were moved with indignation against the two brethren.


NOW...if you understand that a King has a Mother Queen, this should make complete sense.
For the Queen is given a throne...in all cases.
God employed the heirarchy on earth [and taught the ancients as much] on how to seat a kingdom was to reflect the kingdom of Heaven - which is to say so we understand what would come in Heaven.

DO you NOT think Jesus was referring to His Mother??
Again, another prophecy to His Mother.

The entire lineage of the OT was proclaiming Him and even His Mother.
References of the Church would be fulfilled and based in part a double meaning to His Mother.

Much of this was disclosed in the oral teachings of the choosen sons who would serve the altar of God...and we see peeks of it in the catacombs...and other writings.

But the references, like all things in the parables of Jesus, concealed the full meanings so satan couldnt harm His Mother.

He is King of Kings...
He has a right hand of His throne.
She is His Mother, she is thus His Queen.
Yes, she has a throne.

WE KNOW He has a throne [seating] next to Him...
He even said so...
BUT the Father already choose who would sit there.

Is this clicking yet?
 
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MamaZ

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She is our hope...was our hope and still remains our hope
Christ is our Hope not Mary. It is Christ in us the Hope of all glory..
But she has a throne...and is Queen.
She has no throne.. She is a sister in the Lord bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus just as we all are.. There is only one who sits on the throne.. It is not Mary
Remember when the mother requested Jesus put her sons at His right hand..[and left]
And He said 'the spot was already filled' so to speak...?
Never read the Spot was already filled.. He stated that it is the Fathers choice who would sit at His right or Left..
He was referring to Mary His Mother, Queen, but He didnt let anyone know...
for He didnt let anyone know because He didnt want to scandalise His Mother.

Which would have caused ppl to want to follow her, stalk her, and touch her. [As they did Him]
No where ever is it mention of any queen of heaven.. Speculation and teachings of men has persauded this argument that you are showing here on this thread..
 
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WarriorAngel

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Jesus said there was a seat next to Him...OR He would have said 'there is no seat...'
Who fills it, IAA..I mean MamaZ?

There is a seat...
And apparently it is an important seat or God the Father wouldnt have already set up and choose who would sit there?

Are you suggesting that seat isnt important?

Then why did Jesus say it was already going to be filled?

Your argument doesnt make sense next to scriptures.
 
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simonthezealot

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She is our hope...was our hope and still remains our hope...
OF bridging the gap to Jesus Her Son, whom she requests on our behalf for favors.

1 timothy 2:5,

5For
there is one God;
there is also one mediator between God and humankind,
Christ Jesus, himself human,


John 14:13-14,

13I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If in my name you ask me* for anything, I will do it.


1 peter 5:7

7Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.
 
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WarriorAngel

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If Jesus is the Mediator but we are told to pray for one another...
Does that cancel out His Mediatorship?

Or does this prove to us that He will accept requests from others?

Mary requests on our behalf.
So this has nothing to do with the Mediatorship of Christ.
Except to say, Mary can and does make requests for us 'TO' Jesus.
Just as your friends do when they pray for you.
 
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simonthezealot

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If Jesus is the Mediator but we are told to pray for one another...
Does that cancel out His Mediatorship?
The point of the scripture listed is to go to HIM, ask HIM, cast onto HIM
They contradict NEEDING a bridge to HIM

Or does this prove to us that He will accept requests from others?
Nothing in scriptures indicates that those saints in heaven can read our thoughts.
Mary requests on our behalf.
Does she?
So this has nothing to do with the Mediatorship of Christ.
whats the bridge analogy for then?
Except to say, Mary can and does make requests for us 'TO' Jesus.
So says you and your church but the written word of God makes no such suggestion.

Just as your friends do when they pray for you.
Big difference they are here with me they can hear me.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Luke 1:28, 42, 48.

Ponder upon 48.


I find it ironic, that the only ones who assume that the Theotokos has a divine nature are Protestants.



I kind of like this one...
Luke 1
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Past tense...
Just like when the Angel Gabriel greeted her kecharitomene [kecaritomene]
Past tense.

Anyway, reading the responses tells me NO ONE read mine.

What did I say Simon??

Christ's mediatorship is uneffected by any of us praying to Him for one another.
So why is it usurped when Mary prays for us?

Hello? Is anyone in there?
No one reading...?
 
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