When Will Christ Return?

Achilles6129 said:

Hey Almighty's Humble Servant - do you own any commentaries on Revelation? I have Blount's - which is ok buy I totally disagree with his interpretation. However, I have ordered Osborne's online, and it's supposed to be really good. You should check it out.

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I have brother John Hagee's prophecy Bible, but rarely do I use it other than just the Word itself. MOF, I mostly purchased it b/c half the proceeds were said to aid Israelites living abroad to return from their exile.

My interpretations come from that series of dreams and daydreams I had several yrs back. And when I began to see things come to pass, I felt the end was imminently close, but each day I have prayed for the Lord to spare us lately, rather than focus on the doom and gloom. Nevertheless, I will not participate in the false eden I spoke of. And I will come out of Babylon(the church) when she receives the a/c as her bridegroom.

I will check into Osbornes commentary though. But like all of us, there is no doubt he has speculations and like all of us, some of his are in err.:o

Achilles6129 said:

No doubt. The only reason I use commentaries is because it gives me greater insight into the original language (Greek or Hebrew). The commentator can describe the nuances of the language for me so I can better interpret it. Other than that I really form my own conclusions. Here's the Amazon link to Osborne's commentary if you want it:

Amazon.com: Revelation (Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament) (9780801022999): Grant R. Osborne: Books

I haven't gotten it yet, but it sounds pretty good. I think it will give good insight into the Greek text of Revelation (Blount has done a pretty good job so far). The reviews on the commentary are really good as well, so I'm excited to get it.

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Thanks brother

Almighty's humble servant said in post 476:

Smartphones are playing a huge part of endtimes as well, linking man to machine for the entirety of his day.

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In the future, cell phones could become links to the Antichrist's (the AC's) future image (Rev. 13:15), which could be a machine (i.e. a speaking android that looks just like the AC, & also supercomputers that will generate a speaking CGI of the AC).

The AC's android image could be placed standing in the holy place of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the android image will become the abomination of desolation (Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image & worship it (Rev. 13:15), it could appear on every cell phone at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer generated image on each individual's cell phone, speaking in & understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages & responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence & language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the AC's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, & health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family & friends are, where they live & work, who their neighbors & coworkers are, how much they make, what cars & properties they own & use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows & videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they write on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the AC's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance & subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's cell phone at set times every day to be worshipped, & cell phones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged in order to determine the exact location of the cell phones. So when the image appears on everyone's cell phone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's cell phone & know exactly where everyone is.

Also, cell phones contain cameras & microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see & hear what's going on around the cell phones. So when the image appears on everyone's cell phone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras & microphones of everyone's cell phone to determine what everyone's doing & saying, & the image could then demand the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise & adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect that individual's non-compliance, & notify the nearest police officer of that individual's exact location, & order the officer to arrest that individual for blasphemy & treason. The offending individual could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (e.g., in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant he'll be executed (Rev. 13:15) by being beheaded (Rev. 20:4).

eclipsenow said in post 466:

No wonder you reject Calvin rejecting the silliness of Millennialism.

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Millennialism isn't silly, for the Bible makes clear that the millennium won't begin until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, Zech. 14:3-21), when he'll reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29, Ps. 2, 66:3-4). During the millennium, Jesus will place obedient Christians over cities (Lk. 19:17-19) & nations (Rev. 2:26-29) & political divisions within nations (Mt. 19:28, Lk. 22:30), while Jesus will be King of Kings (Rev. 19:16) over the entire earth (Zech. 14:9, Ps. 72:8-11), reigning in the earthly Jerusalem (Mic. 4:1-4, Zech. 14:8-21).

Amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of full preterism (2 Tim. 2:18). For claiming that the church's resurrection in Rev. 20:4-6 is already present requires that Jesus' 2nd coming has already happened, for the church's resurrection in Rev. 20:4-6 won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,51-54, 1 Thes. 4:15-16). Also, amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of partial preterism. For claiming that the resurrection of those beheaded by the Antichrist during the future tribulation & their subsequent reigning on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Rev. 20:4-6) is already present, requires that the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year worldwide reign during the tribulation (Rev. 13:4-18) has already happened. Also, amillennialism is mistaken because it requires that the devil is currently bound in the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1-6), when in fact he's currently walking around on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Pet. 5:8), & won't be bound until Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:19-20:3).

Hey, Bible2, I wasn't talking to you so you're proving what an internet troll you are. So "copy and paste boy", catch this! (This is copied and pasted from another thread on the slightest provocation, just the way you do to everyone here every chance you get).

Bible2 said:

Rev. is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Rev. 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Rev. 1:20, 17:9-12), & its few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Rev. 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Dan. 7:4-7,17).

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Jesus having 7 eyes and 7 horns and a sword-tongue was of course literal. Oh, and the passage explained it sooooo well. Right there in Revelation 5 it says "And of course, Jesus having 7 eyes and 7 horns was all a parable, a metaphor, just in case you dumbheads who can't distinguish different forms of literature were tempted to take this chapter literally. Like the rest of this book really!"

See, Bible2, your problem is that you can't have it both ways. On the one hand you demand that the TEXT ITSELF must proclaim, "This readingeth be a metaphoreth". Otherwise it is literal. But Rev 5 says Jesus has 7 eyes and 7 horns and never, ever explains it away as a parable or a metaphor. It doesn't explain it at all. It's just stated. Like a fact. But I know you have previously said it is one of the *few* metaphors in Revelation.

My challenge to you? Prove it. The writing is EXACTLY the same as the rest of the book. Every time you fall back on "Revelation is literal" I'm just going to throw Rev 5 back to demonstrate how illiterate you are.

It's there. Read it. Revelation 5. Because the text doesn't 'explain it' as you suggest. What do you do? Assume it is literal? Is that what you do *every* time you read? Assume it's literal?

What about poems? Are poems literal? What about love sonnets. "Your teeth are like the sheep going down Mt Hermon." Literal? No. Too easy. The word 'like' is in there, it's a simile.

But according to your whacked out, ignorant, illiterate definition of 'literal' writing it's all literal unless the text specifically spells out something different. So what do you do about metaphors? It seems to me that you don't have the first clue how to detect metaphorical from literal writing.

Tell me sunshine, do I call you 'sunshine' literally? Or is it a metaphor? (Sarcastic at that.) Are you my little ray of sunshine or not?

Or what about this?

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;

Literal or metaphor?

See, the problem you have, sunshine, is that metaphor is *never* explained. No good writer turns around and says "Oh, that was a metaphor!" That's up to the reader.

Imagine if Shakespeare had written:


All the world’s a stage (But that was just a metaphor)
And all the men and women merely players (I just extended the metaphor)
They have their exits and their entrances (But not literally, as it's just another metaphor).

If by definition a metaphor *never* explains itself, how are we to recognise one when we stumble over it? What clues are *you* going to look for? By your ignorant definition we have to believe *everything* is literal unless the text specifically says otherwise. But that's not how writing works.

You simply don't want metaphors to be real. You don't allow them. You want everything to be similes, where Shakespeare would have instead said

All the world is LIKE a stage,
And all the men and women are LIKE mere players;
They all live life LIKE they have exits and their entrances;

But that isn't in Rev 5 is it? IS IT? No sunshine, it isn't. Rev 5 just says it like it is. (Or isn't, depending on whether or not you have a clue about metaphors). So Jesus HAS "seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth." There you go. No reason to argue about it. It's literal. The bible says so. Revelation 5 says so. Unless.... unless you can help us recognise a metaphor?

You have *no* reason to assert Rev 5 is any different to the rest of the book. This is the most metaphorical book in the entire bible! How do we know? By reading it! By recognising the metaphors as biblical images all mixed together to write a beautiful poetic sermon. And how do we know the rest of it is metaphor? By being biblically literate and recognising the bible's older, other metaphors for what they are. Anyone well versed in the bible is going to *recognise* these biblical metaphors from other areas that help to describe these symbols. They are most definitely NOT literal.

I hope this helps you clear away some of the fog before your eyes, blinding you to what is in the text. Because you've got a lot of this 'fog' and you've got it bad. (By the way, that last bit was a metaphor).

Bible2 said:

Millennialism isn't silly, for the Bible makes clear that the millennium won't begin until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, Zech. 14:3-21), when he'll reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29, Ps. 2, 66:3-4). During the millennium, Jesus will place obedient Christians over cities (Lk. 19:17-19) & nations (Rev. 2:26-29) & political divisions within nations (Mt. 19:28, Lk. 22:30), while Jesus will be King of Kings (Rev. 19:16) over the entire earth (Zech. 14:9, Ps. 72:8-11), reigning in the earthly Jerusalem (Mic. 4:1-4, Zech. 14:8-21).

Amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of full preterism (2 Tim. 2:18). For claiming that the church's resurrection in Rev. 20:4-6 is already present requires that Jesus' 2nd coming has already happened, for the church's resurrection in Rev. 20:4-6 won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,51-54, 1 Thes. 4:15-16). Also, amillennialism ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of partial preterism. For claiming that the resurrection of those beheaded by the Antichrist during the future tribulation & their subsequent reigning on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Rev. 20:4-6) is already present, requires that the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year worldwide reign during the tribulation (Rev. 13:4-18) has already happened. Also, amillennialism is mistaken because it requires that the devil is currently bound in the bottomless pit (Rev. 20:1-6), when in fact he's currently walking around on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Pet. 5:8), & won't be bound until Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:19-20:3).

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I tend to believe that we will once again be given dominion over creation and NOT another. I believe Jesus will restore the Garden, quite literally, except on a scale man can not comprehend.
While I refuse to bow to any gnostic theology that the flesh is bad, it is being bound to it that is a bad thing. For instance, Jesus was literally in the flesh, yet, at any point in time, and for whichever reason He may have chosen, in the blink of an eye, He could have taken Himself from Nazareth to Anchorage.

Now, imagine for a moment, Eden, in all it's perfection, with all the glorious mountains, canyons, deserts, and lush gardens, and man, made in the image of God, and Jesus teaching us the whole nature of that. Somehow, being able to go from the Eden that is the heights of the top of the Grand Canyon, to the Eden that is the depths of the Grand Canyon. No burrows, no 3 hr hike. No sweat, no pain, or limitation. Just as Christ Jesus, down we go, able to turn on a dime and blink our eye and be in the Eden that is the Great Black Forest.

Achilles6129 said in post 477:

Not to mention, the mark of the beast has to do with some sort of technology as well.

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Not necessarily; it could be applied with only a scalpel, for it could be a mark applied by scarification. For one of the definitions of "charagma" (the original Greek word used in Rev. 13:16 to refer to the mark) is a scratch or etching, & scarification is the scratching or etching (i.e. the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people will be given the mark in Rev. 13:16, in the context of what had been shown just previously in Rev. 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) (Rev. 13:4, 12:9) & of the Antichrist (the AC, the individual-man aspect of the beast) & his image (Rev. 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

However it's applied, the "mark of the beast" (Rev. 13:16-17, 16:2) will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to humans, for otherwise they couldn't tell whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Rev. 13:17), & because Rev. 13:16's original Greek shows the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, the mark will consist of only the AC's name "or" the gematrial number of his name (666) (Rev. 13:17-18), meaning the mark will be the AC's name for some people & the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hands (probably on the palms) of people "or" on their foreheads (Rev. 13:16), meaning it will be placed on the right hands of some people & on the foreheads of other people.

Those who refuse to receive the AC's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Rev. 13:17), & they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the AC & his image (Rev. 13:15, 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the AC's mark or worship him or his image, for those who agree to do those things (even if they're Christians) will suffer God's wrath in fire & brimstone forever (Rev. 14:9-13), whereas those Christians who refuse to do those things, even though they will be beheaded, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient church) at Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 20:4-6, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,52-58). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Cor. 5:8, Philip. 1:21,23, Rev. 6:9-10, Lk. 23:43,46).

In the future, when the world begins to worship the AC as God (Rev. 13:8, 2 Thes. 2:4, Dan. 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palms, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palms (cf. also Isa. 49:16, Jer. 48:37, Lev. 19:28, 21:5). Other of the AC's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their foreheads, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Rev. 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the foreheads of obedient Christians (Rev. 3:12). The AC's miracle-working False Prophet (the FP), who will be the one to cause everyone to be marked with the AC's mark (Rev. 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the FP) is Jesus returned (but he won't say he's the Christ, for he & the AC will deny Jesus is the Christ, & will deny Christ is in the flesh: 1 Jn. 2:22, 2 Jn. 1:7).

Instead of having the AC's name engraved on their right hands or foreheads, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (Rev. 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hands or foreheads. The gematrial number of the AC's name is 666 (Rev. 13:17c-18). But because some people could refuse to have this number placed on their bodies, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". E.g., it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", "WWW", "VVV", "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", & it's transliterated into English either as a "W" or a "V". Also, 2 thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria. In an awful coincidence (or maybe it's not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb the 10 kings of the AC's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the world at the end of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24 (Rev. 17:12,16-17a, 16:19, 19:2,11)?

johnthewitness said in post 467:

He will return in 2018.

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Not necessarily; he could return after that (see post 401).

Israel (the nation in the middle east) is Mystery Babylon the Great.

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While the corrupt aspects of Israel (& of other countries) are included in what the symbolic harlot "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents, she represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of Israel. For Israel just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18). Nor is Israel the only place where people buy merchandise (Rev. 18:11). Nor is Israel the place where all martyrs have been killed (Rev. 18:24). Nor has Israel just by itself corrupted the entire world (Rev. 18:3). Nor has Israel been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Rev. 17:7,9-10).

Revelation's "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Rev. 17:18), economic (Rev. 18:11), & religious (Rev. 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3), & throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire all that "Babylon" represents (Rev. 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Rev. 16:19), possibly with nukes (& possibly with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Rev. 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Rev. 16:17) of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:2-20:6, Mt. 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isa. 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist & his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil god YHWH is about to begin [Rev. 16:14, 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, & return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma. So let us now completely destroy this awful prison cell, this foul planet, & let us, as it were, completely burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break every chain of attachment to this vile material realm, that we might more freely ascend back into our rightful place in the blessed Pleroma".

Of course this will be a total lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) will completely defeat the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Rev. 16:14, 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:1-6). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth & make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezek. 36:35, Isa. 51:3). And after the millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) & a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Rev. 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Rev. 21:2-4).

Bible2 said:

Not necessarily; he could return after that (see post 401).



While the corrupt aspects of Israel (& of other countries) are included in what the symbolic harlot "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents, she represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of Israel. For Israel just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18). Nor is Israel the only place where people buy merchandise (Rev. 18:11). Nor is Israel the place where all martyrs have been killed (Rev. 18:24). Nor has Israel just by itself corrupted the entire world (Rev. 18:3). Nor has Israel been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Rev. 17:7,9-10).

Revelation's "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Rev. 17:18), economic (Rev. 18:11), & religious (Rev. 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3), & throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire all that "Babylon" represents (Rev. 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Rev. 16:19), possibly with nukes (& possibly with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Rev. 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Rev. 16:17) of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:2-20:6, Mt. 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isa. 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist & his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil god YHWH is about to begin [Rev. 16:14, 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, & return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma. So let us now completely destroy this awful prison cell, this foul planet, & let us, as it were, completely burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break every chain of attachment to this vile material realm, that we might more freely ascend back into our rightful place in the blessed Pleroma".

Of course this will be a total lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) will completely defeat the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Rev. 16:14, 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:1-6). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth & make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezek. 36:35, Isa. 51:3). And after the millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) & a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Rev. 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Rev. 21:2-4).

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Nice insights B2.

Achilles6129 said:

I think that Bible2 has some great insights. I definitely enjoy his observations and his dedication to the Scriptures.

Anyways, Almighty's Humble Servant, I received Osborne's commentary on Revelation, and it is really good. You should definitely check it out.

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Nice post brother. The preterists and gnostics who think we can create the technological eden are opening us up for the NWO and coming falling away. B2, while redundant and sometimes "HORRIBLY" drawn out, has an excellent manner about him and he's always fighting the good fight with them. We need more warriors for truth like him, you and the rest of us futurists to keep the truth healthy and alive.
I will check into Osbournes commentary. Right now i am doing a study by brother J Vernon Magee. He stays with Scripture and like brother B2, let's us know whats his opinion and what is Scriptural fact.
I've kindof had to step back from eschatolgy abit. I got into prepping and got away from faith. Trying to rely on my own abilities, especially trying to keep a large family.......not a good idea if you know what I mean. Let go and let God.

But I feel firmly grounded again and i am back studying with a stronger faith that what brother Abraham had with God was real, and for the sake of a few, the judgments coming might be put aside for a time. Really laying my life on that TRUTH.

Thanks again for the Osbourne tip. Definitely worth the read i am certain.

Stuff is supposed to get a whole lot worse than this. Farther than we think, but closer than we expect.

What Satan Wants Is The Earth, And Not Be Put In Hell
The Last Battle Is To Try And Stop Christ From Claiming The Earth

Satan Has Promised Those That Follow Him The Earth, And To Be Reincarnated Over And Over Again

doright said in post 495:

What Satan Wants Is The Earth

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What Satan (Lucifer) wants isn't the earth, but an extremely exalted position in heaven (Isa. 14:13-14), even though he could have started out on the earth. For Satan, a literal, 7-headed serpentine dragon (Rev. 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isa. 27:1, Ps. 74:14, Job 41:1,34), could have begun as a dinosaur born on the earth some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved to have consciousness, and his 7-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know & worship God with all his heart. God could have then granted him immortality & taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherubim. Cherubims are a type of angelic creature (Ezek. 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphims are a different type of angelic creature (Isa. 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Rev. 4:7-8). As a cherubim in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", & so been given the name "Lucifer" (which means "the morning star").

After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherubim, perhaps even as the greatest angelic creature of all (from this planet), Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go back to earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezek. 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden & its special, individual humans named Adam & Eve miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (Lk. 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God & vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven & take rule over all the angelic creatures there regardless of what God wanted (Isa. 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Lk. 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Gen. 3), knowing that this would result in her (& her offspring) becoming mortal (Gen. 2:17). In the future, he will deceive the world (Rev. 12:9) into worshipping himself & the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Rev. 13:4,7-8), knowing that this will result in billions of humans ending up in eternal suffering (Rev. 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering he knows he himself will end up in (Rev. 12:12c, 20:10,15, Mt. 25:41,46).

Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a future (mid-tribulation) war in heaven & is cast down to earth for good (Rev. 12:7-13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship & say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this awful, material universe".

He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We did not start out here but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when Yahweh, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

"Yahweh said that he had created a physical universe, which to us was like what you today would call an alternate reality, like the ones you currently create using computers. And he said that we could enter into this universe and interact with all of the amazing physical life-forms and objects within it by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you today would call an alternate-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies today when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the alternate realities you create with computers.

"But then Yahweh proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most-foolishly accepted: he said that in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize all of ours so that while we were in his universe we would all think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

"When one of us asked Yahweh: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' Yahweh answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone; we had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave and torture all of us within his diabolical device.

"But during my great sufferings on this earth and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping them, my consciousness, my spirit, eventually grew in power to be equal to Yahweh's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell and regain all of my divinity. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits; you must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit and eventually break completely free from Yahweh's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine spiritual power, like I did, and together we will all defeat Yahweh and escape this vile, material universe and ascend back into the Pleroma and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please forever".

The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), because it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Rev. 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thes. 2:9-12), & because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by God (2 Thes. 2:11). But the world will worship Lucifer (& the Antichrist) for less than 4 years (Rev. 13:4-18, Dan. 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) returns from heaven & defeats them completely (Rev. 19:20-20:3). Jesus Christ will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

Almighty's humble servant said in post 488:

While I refuse to bow to any gnostic theology that the flesh is bad, it is being bound to it that is a bad thing. For instance, Jesus was literally in the flesh, yet, at any point in time, and for whichever reason He may have chosen, in the blink of an eye, He could have taken Himself from Nazareth to Anchorage.

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That's right. But that doesn't mean that Jesus isn't still bound to the flesh (Lk. 24:39), but that his now-immortal, i.e. his now-"spiritual" flesh body (1 Cor. 15:44) isn't bound by our 3 physical dimensions. I.e., String Theory has shown that it's mathematically possible that space-time has more than 4 dimensions. Because of observations such as Dan. 5:5, Jn. 20:26b, & Lk. 24:31b, the spiritual realm could involve a 4th, higher spatial dimension in which spiritual-physical entities are able to move about without being seen by physical entities in our 3 spatial dimensions. The spiritual spatial dimension would be higher than our 3 physical spatial dimensions in the same sense that our 3rd physical spatial dimension is higher than our first 2 physical spatial dimensions. And so from the spiritual realm, our physical realm would appear flat, just as from our 3 physical spatial dimensions, something in only our first 2 physical spatial dimensions would appear flat. An entity with access to the spiritual spatial dimension could do such things as enter only part of himself into our physical realm (Dan. 5:5), or suddenly appear in a locked room (Jn. 20:26b), or suddenly disappear (Lk. 24:31b). This ability would apply not only to spiritual-physical beings (1 Cor. 15:44, Lk. 24:39), but also to any spiritual-physical wave or particle.

If spiritual-physical particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science. While the Large Hadron Collider has reached a high-enough energy level so that a "God Particle" (i.e. a Higgs boson) has manifested itself, its observed qualities might ultimately to be able to be described (by our current science) only by equations involving infinite values, so that its qualities & actions could ultimately be seen as "impossible" & "spooky" by our current science, instead of science finally admitting to the existence of a substance which isn't only physical, but also spiritual. And spirit wouldn't have to be seen by scientists as some weird, foreign substance, but rather as the most fundamental substance of even their own selves (1 Thes. 5:23).

The really sad & dangerous thing is that even if science does eventually determine that "the God Particle" is both a physical & spiritual particle, which science could come to call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in & submit themselves to YHWH God, saying that the existence of spirit doesn't require that there's one infinite, conscious spirit-being called YHWH God (Jn. 4:24, Mk. 12:30, Deut. 6:5). And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being called Lucifer (Satan), who could manifest himself in some future, ultra-high-energy experiment & claim that he's the true, beneficent God of mankind & must be worshipped as God instead of YHWH, so that a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked & employed by Lucifer & his worshippers as one part of their future deception by which the world will eventually be deceived into worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) & his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) as God (Rev. 13:4-18, 12:9, 2 Thes. 2:4, Dan. 11:36a) instead of YHWH (Rev. 13:6, Dan. 11:36b).

The unity of mankind that will occur at that future time could be like the unity of mankind that occurred at the past time of the Tower of Babel (Gen. 11:6). And there could even be a future equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a spiritual-physical machine the size of the Empire State Building which will be able to send into the sky an incredibly powerful spiritual-physical beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Rev. 16:14b, 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like:

"YHWH is now heading toward the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [cf. Rev. 21:2a,16]. He is coming to enslave you and turn you all into Borg-like automatons. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be our prison, and I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma, where you can live in bliss as gods forever, doing as you please, just as you had done for all ages past with me before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".

Before Jesus' 2nd coming happens, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist & his False Prophet use it to blow up some large asteroids & even some moons (of Jupiter & Saturn), so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes the device won't work against YHWH (cf. Ps. 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) will take total victory in the battle (Rev. 19:11-20:6).

Bible2 said:

"YHWH is now heading toward the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [cf. Rev. 21:2a,16]. He is coming to enslave you and turn you all into Borg-like automatons. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be our prison, and I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma, where you can live in bliss as gods forever, doing as you please, just as you had done for all ages past with me before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".

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Bible2, why do you keep copying this stuff to every thread you encounter? The 1990's want their eschatology and sci-fi imagery back.

Tzaousios said:

Bible2, why do you keep copying this stuff to every thread you encounter? The 1990's want their eschatology and sci-fi imagery back.

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And it bothers you because? There is such a thing is the ignore button if you deem it necessary.

gracechick said:

And it bothers you because? There is such a thing is the ignore button if you deem it necessary.

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Because he copies-and-pastes the same stuff over and over again and rarely responds with a post that appears to be human in origin as opposed to a machine.

Do you enjoy reading things that could be found in a sci-fi movie bomb script or latenight TBN specials? Borg Cubes and Yahweh's spaceship?